Ick or velvet???

scootPrime

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I recently added ten purple tangs to my display tank and they are showing signs of velvet/ick I can see the noticeably bigger white spots but there’s also a sheet of small white spots on most of them. They’ve been in the tank for 10 days now and are eating extremely well and active. They started showing signs 7 days ago which makes me question if it’s actually velvet or a really bad case of ick from them sorting out dominance in the new tank. I’ve had velvet before and it wiped a tank of healthy fish out in 3 days and you noticed the fish suffering bad during them 3 days. This looks to the eye like velvet with the small spots but the way the fish act doesn’t seem like it. Are there strains of ick that can mimic velvet spots? There’s no heavy breathing, no cloudy eyes. Just smaller spots along with larger ones. Maybe even excess mucus from the ick? It’s a 1000g tang so it’s not like I can just scoop them up with a quickness. This would be a whole day process. Anyone had anything similar? Any help would be great. Thanks.

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Jay Hemdal

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Fish can have ich and velvet at the same time but it is pretty rare. The pictures look like a moderate case of ich. The trophonts are different ages so will be different sizes. Velvet will show rapid breathing and the fish will stop eating. Fish with ich will breath fine and eat ok up until the last few days of the infection.
IMO - This is beyond the point of managing it in the DT - you’ll need to either pull the inverts and run hyposalinity or pull the fish and run copper in a QT. Ugh!
Jay
 
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scootPrime

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So these 10 new fish which are prone to ich went through no QT process prior to your tank?
Fish were QT from the supplier and they were Qt by me with copper power at 2.3ppm verified by Hanna checker and 100% water change every 3 days with water copper treated prior to filling tank. At this point I’ve just accepted ick and tangs are almost an impossible even though it shouldn’t be. Maybe they built up an immunity to the copper. I’m lost at this point.
 
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Fish were QT from the supplier and they were Qt by me with copper power at 2.3ppm verified by Hanna checker and 100% water change every 3 days with water copper treated prior to filling tank. At this point I’ve just accepted ick and tangs are almost an impossible even though it shouldn’t be. Maybe they built up an immunity to the copper. I’m lost at this point.
Well that's a real bummer then. I wish you luck whichever path you choose for the situation.
 
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scootPrime

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Fish can have ich and velvet at the same time but it is pretty rare. The pictures look like a moderate case of ich. The trophonts are different ages so will be different sizes. Velvet will show rapid breathing and the fish will stop eating. Fish with ich will breath fine and eat ok up until the last few days of the infection.
IMO - This is beyond the point of managing it in the DT - you’ll need to either pull the inverts and run hyposalinity or pull the fish and run copper in a QT. Ugh!
Jay
I was hoping to be able to manage. Do you think a large UV sterilizer could get it down to a manageable level of ick? If not I’ll order a fish trap and start the QT process again
 
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scootPrime

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Fish can have ich and velvet at the same time but it is pretty rare. The pictures look like a moderate case of ich. The trophonts are different ages so will be different sizes. Velvet will show rapid breathing and the fish will stop eating. Fish with ich will breath fine and eat ok up until the last few days of the infection.
IMO - This is beyond the point of managing it in the DT - you’ll need to either pull the inverts and run hyposalinity or pull the fish and run copper in a QT. Ugh!
Jay
How long would you recommend running hyposalinity? Might be easier to remove the coral and couple inverts than all of the fish.
 
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Jay Hemdal

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How long would you recommend running hyposalinity? Might be easier to remove the coral and couple inverts than all of the fish.
Hypo won’t work for velvet, but for ich you can run a specific gravity of 1.009 for 30 days after the spots went away, then slowly bring the SG back. The inverts can’t return to the tank for 45 to 60 days though.
Jay
 

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The salinity is usually 16-17 ppt, specific gravity 1.013 or so for up to 35 days. Realizing that Hyposalinity may make fish more susceptible to uronema and velvet
That SG is for Neobenedenia flukes, it needs to be lower for ich.
Jay
 
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scootPrime

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Is there any known way to 100% confirm whether it is ick or velvet besides observing. Id hate to go hypo and it turn out to be velvet and it get the best of the fish. Could you take a swab of the fish and examine under a microscope possibly?
 

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Can any help me out with my angle fish?
Purchase it online about a week ago, it in my qt system, not sure if it’s just got beat up.
There are to spots, one by him fin(fin his mission half of it, also the two spots( you can only see the one by the fin. The spot looks lake a knot
 

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vetteguy53081

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Is there any known way to 100% confirm whether it is ick or velvet besides observing. Id hate to go hypo and it turn out to be velvet and it get the best of the fish. Could you take a swab of the fish and examine under a microscope possibly?
It ich and based on size of dots alone. Velvet looks more like a dust, fish would gasp at surface and swim in front of water pumps and even act lethargic.
Im not a fan of hypo but it works, Most effective in addressing ich and velvet is treatment in quarantine at your soonest. Best treatment would be coppersafe or general cure with coppersafe my choice at therapuetic level 2.25-2.5 monitored with a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna brand, not Api
Also monitor ammonia level with a reliable test kit during treatment and would not be a bad idea to add an air stone for added oxygen during treatment
You will also need to leave display tank FishLess (Fallow) for at least 6-8 weeks to assure the cysts and trophants have completed their life cycle without a host and have died off
 
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MnFish1

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Is there any known way to 100% confirm whether it is ick or velvet besides observing. Id hate to go hypo and it turn out to be velvet and it get the best of the fish. Could you take a swab of the fish and examine under a microscope possibly?
It is based on appearance and symptoms - by appearance it looks like Ich, by behavior it sounds like Ich. Did you consider ReefRally Pro - which will also help velvet? I think Jay would agree with this - that hypo salinity is good for 'prevention' - not as good for curing an active infection?
 

MnFish1

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not with ich
Sorry - I probably wasn't completely cure - I believe that Ruby Reef Rally Pro HELPS Ich - but it's recommended for use with 'Kick Ich' - made by the same company. I wondered if in combination with Hyposalinity - whether Ruby Reef Rally Pro would help mitigate some of the fear of velvet - which the OP was asking about
 

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