Ick spots 1 month into copper treatment?

[Schulks]

My fish had white spot symptoms so I began treating them about 35 days ago with copper power. I have had the copper level at 2.4+ that entire time tested with the Hanna HR copper checker. They had symptoms about 12 days in still so I am keeping them going for an extra long time. At 33 days I started preparing water to remove the copper but noticed a peculiar white spot near a clowns gill and decided to wait a few days. Today I was shocked to find even more white spots. They seem larger than before but there is even more than I had seen when I started treatment. My assessment is this can't be velvet or ick if I haven't dropped copper level so it should be brook and I am just not able to see the 'peeling' yet.

It is just the one clown and the only symptom is the spots. They are very chipper and hungry fish.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[Schulks]

Here is some pics

 

[vetteguy53081]

Here is some pics

Fish is showing some spots yet as well as mucus spores suggesting cryptocaryon which is marine ich . Place temperature at 80 deg and assure ammonia is not elevated. 2.5 level for full 30 days is typical but can go another 10 days. Assure copper level has not fallen as you will have then broken the treatment cycle

 

[Schulks]

Fish is showing some spots yet as well as mucus spores suggesting cryptocaryon which is marine ich . Place temperature at 80 deg and assure ammonia is not elevated. 2.5 level for full 30 days is typical but can go another 10 days. Assure copper level has not fallen as you will have then broken the treatment cycle

I have been treating them with copper for nearly 40 days now. I am quite certain the copper level never dropped but I was having some ammonia problems in the beginning. Should I just plan to treat with copper for another 30 days?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have been treating them with copper for nearly 40 days now. I am quite certain the copper level never dropped but I was having some ammonia problems in the beginning. Should I just plan to treat with copper for another 30 days?

Do good water change then reset level to 2.25 and start new cycle.
Other option would be hyposalinity at 1.009
Im headed back to MACNA. Lets see if @Jay Hemdal wants to add to this

 

[Schulks]

Do good water change then reset level to 2.25 and start new cycle.
Other option would be hyposalinity at 1.009

Thanks for the help,
Is it likely I didn't keep the copper high enough? The lowest I recorded my copper was 2.38 and it was normally at 2.5. Could the ammonia reduce the effectiveness of the treatment?

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks for the help,
Is it likely I didn't keep the copper high enough? The lowest I recorded my copper was 2.38 and it was normally at 2.5. I guess there isn't other ways this can happen.

The issue is that - it's possible that certain strains of Ich are more resistant to copper than others. Secondly - it's also possible that your copper test was inaccurate. How many times did you test per day? I guess the third possibility is that the 'spots' are not Ich - but something else. The most likely issue is IMHO a copper level that was not adequate for the entire time - for whatever reason.

 

[Schulks]

The issue is that - it's possible that certain strains of Ich are more resistant to copper than others. Secondly - it's also possible that your copper test was inaccurate. How many times did you test per day? I guess the third possibility is that the 'spots' are not Ich - but something else. The most likely issue is IMHO a copper level that was not adequate for the entire time - for whatever reason.

At first I was testing 2-3 times to ensure accuracy but I had consistent results every time for 1-2 weeks of near daily testing. After that I started testing about once a week only one time. I wasn't having dropping copper levels my QT was only PVC and a HOB filter.


Would it be possible for elevated ammonia to reduce the fishes ability to fight off the disease? I was doing water changes every day for awhile trying to keep it down. I was mixing 20 gallons at a time and dosing copper to it before changing.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks for the help,
Is it likely I didn't keep the copper high enough? The lowest I recorded my copper was 2.38 and it was normally at 2.5. Could the ammonia reduce the effectiveness of the treatment?

It can slightly but stable level is important

 

[zheka757]

see how long those spots stay on a fish, remember location of few spots, if its longer then 7-10 days, its probably something else, not ick.

 

[Schulks]

see how long those spots stay on a fish, remember location of few spots, if its longer then 7-10 days, its probably something else, not ick.

I've actually already noticed one disappear. it was the first one i noticed on him.

 

[zheka757]

my preferred method is TTM for ick, 8 years ago i killed a fish with coper treatment, so never tried it again.
ttm only takes 12-14 days

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Here is some pics

Not all white spots are ich, even if they are the right size . What you need to do is take some photos of the spots and then see if they disappear or come back in new locations in new areas after 36 hours. If the spots are stable in the same location, these aren’t likely ich, could be mucus plugs. Another “trick” is look for spots on the soft parts of the fins. If the spots are only on the body, and never on the fins, it is more likely to be mucus as opposed to ich.
Jay

 

[Schulks]

Not all white spots are ich, even if they are the right size . What you need to do is take some photos of the spots and then see if they disappear or come back in new locations in new areas after 36 hours. If the spots are stable in the same location, these aren’t likely ich, could be mucus plugs. Another “trick” is look for spots on the soft parts of the fins. If the spots are only on the body, and never on the fins, it is more likely to be mucus as opposed to ich.
Jay

Hey Jay!
I have only seen one on his fin. Should this worry me or is that a soft spot on his fin?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

That spot on the fin looks too large and oblong to be ich. Watch it for a few days and see if it disappears.

Jay

 

[Schulks]

This is frustrating but maybe it still isn't ick.
The one clown fish is still having white spots show up on him. Right now he has a large one on his face and a few on his body near his tail. I took some more pictures as best I can but I think I need a better camera.

I took out the copper about 2 weeks ago now and he is still the only fish showing white spots. I haven't seen them showing up in the same places as previously and they will go away for like 4 days at a time and come back.

How do mucus plugs normally occur? are they recurring for weeks normally?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Well, the two spots on the fish's right side (with the rings around them) aren't ich - they've been there too long. In the first picture, on the fish's left side, the spot in the back is too oblong to be ich. The other two, I can't tell.

Mucus and/or damaged scales can take weeks to months to heal. If the spots are not changing in number or location, and there are no other symptoms for two more weeks, I wouldn't worry about it.

Jay

 

[Schulks]

Today he is completely broken out in white spots. There is about 20, that almost certainly means ick now right? Should I grab some pictures? I am just in a hurry to work right now.

I think I need to come up with a nuclear game plan and try again. I believe the ick was finding a way between my tanks. It is that or it is a very tough strain of ick and I should have kept my copper at 2.6~ instead of 2.4~. I could have taken down my display tank while treating them so I could just sterilize it and all the gear for it. Would 1.5 months dry in a storage unit kill ick/disease off my current gear or is there a better way?

 

[Schulks]

I made time for some pics

 

[Jay Hemdal]

See the pointed ends on the white spots in the upper picture? Mucus plugs do that. That said, the second picture does look more like ich. You’re sure the spots are coming and going and changing locations?
Jay