ICP and Trace Elements. Anybody ever in range and if so, how do you do it?

Randy Holmes-Farley

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IMO, there are huge uncertainties that go well beyond whether an ICP is accurate.

These are:

1. Trace element concentrations vary greatly in the ocean, both with location and depth. Thus, the goal of "matching the ocean" is not simply met, even with perfect supplements and daily testing.

2. The chemical form of trace elements can impact the bioavailability and toxicity greatly, yet ICP says nothing about the chemical form actually present. One cannot (should not) assume the form dosed is the form present.

3. There is only general information on what levels of any individual trace element are desirable for a reef tank. Almost no one is carefully varying a single element and maintaining everything else unchanged and looking to observe a positive or negative effect at different concentrations.

With all of this info together, ICP can be helpful for any individual reefer doing trial and error experiments to see what is helpful to the aquarium life, but assuming one must target any specific level of any trace element with dosing and measurement (and removal, if needed), is not really justified by the current state of the art.
 

Reefology1

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IMO, there are huge uncertainties that go well beyond whether an ICP is accurate.

These are:

1. Trace element concentrations vary greatly in the ocean, both with location and depth. Thus, the goal of "matching the ocean" is not simply met, even with perfect supplements and daily testing.

2. The chemical form of trace elements can impact the bioavailability and toxicity greatly, yet ICP says nothing about the chemical form actually present. One cannot (should not) assume the form dosed is the form present.

3. There is only general information on what levels of any individual trace element are desirable for a reef tank. Almost no one is carefully varying a single element and maintaining everything else unchanged and looking to observe a positive or negative effect at different concentrations.

With all of this info together, ICP can be helpful for any individual reefer doing trial and error experiments to see what is helpful to the aquarium life, but assuming one must target any specific level of any trace element with dosing and measurement (and removal, if needed), is not really justified by the current state of the art.
@Randy Holmes-Farley, Can you please explain point #2 in more detail with an example of a trace element other than iodine.
Thank you
 

ELChingonsReef

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I was tal
I have a one year (and change) old SPS tank that is a do-over from the last one that crashed. Probably 6 or 7 torch heads and 15 SPS frags at this point.

I started out using all Red Sea products again. However, my local LSF (Reef Masters) recently launched an ICP testing service (Reef Labs) and my first few ICP tests were not great. Deficient in most trace elements... In Red Sea's defense, I was not using Red Sea's trace element program as it always felt weird to dose trace elements based solely on Ca consumption and I just assumed water changes would buffer up most of the traces.

Reef Masters also carries a new line of products called Reef Blueprint (unrelated to them). It was developed by the former owner of Brightwell Aquatics after he sold Brightwell.

About 3 months ago, I decided to switch over to the entire Reef Blueprint line (salt, Ca, Alk, Mg, K, and the full line trace elements) and have continued to do ICP tests almost weekly. I'm both stubborn and impatient, and am trying to get the tank in line with a dosing program that puts everything in range, sooner than later.

I'm shocked at how many things that I'm still deficient in despite literally dosing specific trace elements daily... But I am getting closer. I'm slowly and methodically upping my trace element dosages and tracking it all with a spreadsheet after each ICP. I'm hopeful to get most everything in range here in a few more weeks and targeting the high end of the range so I can go to quarterly testing and make adjustments for the coral growth without actually dipping below the bottom threshold.

For those that simply ICP once in a blue moon and still get strong results with most trace elements in range, how are you doing it??? This is a ton of work and I would love to find an easier way. I suspect my last tank went sideways after what was probably years of missing or deficient trace elements.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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@Randy Holmes-Farley, Can you please explain point #2 in more detail with an example of a trace element other than iodine.
Thank you

Sorry, missed this:

2. The chemical form of trace elements can impact the bioavailability and toxicity greatly, yet ICP says nothing about the chemical form actually present. One cannot (should not) assume the form dosed is the form present.

A couple of different types of examples.

Iron can be present as ferrous (Fe++) or ferric (Fe+++) ion, and can be complexed (or not) by a wide array of natural and unnatural organic chelators. Some iron chelators hold iron so strongly that it is not bioavailable at all, and some just hold it weakly enough to keep it from precipitating as iron oxide or hydroxide. That's the basis of wanting to dose ferrous gluconate rather than ferrous sulfate.

Tin can be present in many different organic forms as stabilizers in plastics that can leach into the water. They will have different solubility and propensity to be taken up and or metabolized by marine organisms. here's a typical structure:


1673035779139.png
 

A worm with high fashion and practical utility: Have you ever kept feather dusters in your reef aquarium?

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