ICP. Ho.. Huh, What is it goo-ood for? Absolutely….

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ReefRxSWFL

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Seemed like you were making a broad dismissal.

Also, I would say that not all the elements are for coral. Microbes and other stuff use them as well, and I'm guessing it would have an effect on that side of the tank as well. Yet, I have no idea how that stuff would all interact.

I'll be the first to say I have no idea if all the elements really matter, or how they matter. All I can says is that i'm happy with the results and that it's working for whatever reason. Most of the elements are really cheap to dose. I don't see the harm in spending $1 a month to keep an element I don't understand near natural sea water levels.
Do you have any idea who you are talking to? There are a lot of wanna be experts in this hobby, and you pick someone that is not just an EXPERT, but a LEGEND in the hobby.

Dude. Go find a way to be happy with your life. Randy takes his time to help people be successful in the hobby by sharing his experience with hobby reefers. Saying Thank You would probably be more appropriate.

Maybe reading some of his stuff would be beneficial.
 
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reefiniteasy

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OP, please correct me if I’m wrong… you made a claim that you sent off three vials for the same tank, labeled as separate tanks, to two separate companies, ATI and ICP-Analysis and you claim that all three are off from one another. The samples were taken at the same exact time. This is your basis for this thread that icp testing is not worth it.

Can you please post your results, so someone like Randy can review them. I don’t understand why you won’t show the proof for your findings. I don’t get it.
 

mindme

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Do you have any idea who the ________ you are talking to? There are a lot of wanna be experts in this hobby, and you pick someone that is not just an EXPERT, but a LEGEND in the hobby.

Dude. Go find a way to be happy with your life. Randy takes his time to help people be successful in the hobby by sharing his experience with hobby reefers. Saying Thank You would probably be more appropriate.

Maybe reading some of his stuff would be beneficial.

Yes I know who he is.

If you want to treat him differently be my guest. Asking me to do the same is where you're going to be disappointed.

Being an expert on a topic gives you the ability to easily explain things, not the ability to never be questioned while being treated as though they can't be wrong or make mistakes.

I sometimes wonder if people understand how science works. It sure as hell isn't about taking dogma from so called experts, I can tell you that much.
 

92Miata

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I didn't create the method, so I don't know about all the elements etc. But I dose seachem iodide. I was following the directions on the bottle until recently, and my iodine was always low. Now based on the MS method I'm dosing it daily and dosing more of it. I dose 16 drops of it a day, and my levels come back in good range.

Back in the right range according to what? Remember, your ICP test cant tell the difference between iodine and iodide.
 

Hydrored

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Odds are you will never see the results, another internet troll getting everyone all worked up. We don’t even know if they have a thriving reef tank.

I personally have had good results using RMS on my new build but I do not take the ICP results as absolute and make changes based on the trends, I also still perform small AWC even though it’s not needed- because that’s what works for me.

I have learned from and respect many of the opinions from others in this thread, even though we don’t agree on everything, doesn’t mean the years of experience using what works for them isn’t valuable.
 

mindme

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Back in the right range according to what? Remember, your ICP test cant tell the difference between iodine and iodide.

It doesn't need to tell the difference. The amount of iodine and iodide would be relative to each other. Especially since I'm dosing the same amount day after day.

And I just think you must believe the ICP results are random or something. I'm not sure where you get a margin of error into meaning not accurate at all.
 

muffinmanXL

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Oh, ya got me. Go do something important with the other guy. This threads not for you, but we appreciate your valuable contribution

How petty. So who is this thread for then?

Know it all reefers dismissive of others who reef a different way and are insulting on top of that represent the worst of this hobby.

Post the results.

You made this thread, made the claims, provide nothing to back up your claims, then demand scientific results from anyone who disputes your claims.

You don't get to decide what threads people participate in, sorry.
+1
 

Anthony Scholfield

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@ReefRxSWFL WHERE IS THE DATA YO?!?!?!

For real....you made a claim and have posted no data to support your claim. Without any data this is just here say which has no value to any of us. If you truly want to be helpful you would post the data you have.

This is what you wrote.....

"So after that first round, i decided to send that lab 3 tests, but from the same tank, at the same exact time and labeled as 3 different tanks. The results should have been the same, or at least similar, right?

So, i ordered 3 tests from another, did the same thing, and again…. Results should have been the same? Similar?

yeah, both answers are no."

Typically when a person makes a claim like this they post the data they received for all to see. Even after several people have asked you for the data you still do not share it. It seems you claim to have a background that understands the importance of data so i dont understand why you would hold back such incriminating evidence??

The burden of proof is on you. You made the claim and until you provide the 6 results everything you share here holds no weight. Im not saying this to be rude but how can any of us believe you without the data?

You're starting to sound like Vibrant....a whole lotta claims and no data to share.

GIVE US THE DATA!! Please :)
 

IKD

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Yes I know who he is.

If you want to treat him differently be my guest. Asking me to do the same is where you're going to be disappointed.

Being an expert on a topic gives you the ability to easily explain things, not the ability to never be questioned while being treated as though they can't be wrong or make mistakes.

I sometimes wonder if people understand how science works. It sure as hell isn't about taking dogma from so called experts, I can tell you that much.
Your doctor must find you a hoot and a half (j/k)
 

wmb0003

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Wow, what a heated topic. I believe ICP results should be viewed with a little skepticism but there is some good information in there.

I did a recent experiment somewhat similar to what OP did. However I will share all my results. I would like to do further testing but don't feel like throwing more time and money at it right now. Summary can be found here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/d...to-water-change-reservoir.873569/post-9862391

I would rank ICP-analysis and Triton as the 2 worst ICP testing facilities that I am familiar with. I had similar results with Triton when I ran my tests.

But I also would like to see the actual ICP results @ReefRxSWFL
 

lefkonj

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How do you know it was fine ? I sent 3 samples from the same tank to two different ICP providers, and none of them matched. And I sent them in the same box at the same time?

How were you able to confirm your results were accurate vs random numbers on a spreadsheet?
I am a believer in small changes and time. I was having problems did an ICP test. It recommended a treatment along with a few other minor changes. I followed the treatment let the tank settle and things are looking better.

I have tested my water with Hanna or RedSea and sometimes the tests are not the same, done within minutes of each other. Sometimes reagents are crap, sometimes its user error. I am not saying ICP is the GOD of testing but it helped me.
 

JCM

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lol

I posted a thread a while back on what I thought was a dream methodology. It is fairly similar to moonshiners that you claim I’m dismissing. So don’t be so quick to criticize my ideas without understanding them. I actually do not think I posted anything other than some issues that relate to imperfect testing capability and imperfect knowledge of what corals actually require, and how one might be successful even in spite of both facts.

Thus is the thread:


you can see my tank description, methods, and pictures here:


Here’s a picture of my tank from the thread:

1652896557403.jpeg

Do you even SPS bro?

Just kidding. I don't know if it's the animals, the lighting, or just the picture but I love the cryptic areas formed under the massive corals. It was a beautiful tank.

Do you ever consider starting a new tank? You're clearly passionate about reef aquariums.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Do you even SPS bro?

Just kidding. I don't know if it's the animals, the lighting, or just the picture but I love the cryptic areas formed under the massive corals. It was a beautiful tank.

Do you ever consider starting a new tank? You're clearly passionate about reef aquariums.

I’ve grown some SPS in the tank at various times, but I never really like the unmoving look. The picture in the post below from the tank thread shows one on the upper right. It just seems boaring.

I generally prefer the movement associated with anemones (especially with clownfish) and soft corals.

 

JCM

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I’ve grown some SPS in the tank at various times, but I never really like the unmoving look. The picture in the post below from the tank thread shows one on the upper right. It just seems boaring.

I generally prefer the movement associated with anemones (especially with clownfish) and soft corals.


I know, I've read your thread. I was just joking. It looked great in all of its iterations.

Thanks for still engaging here (forums in general), I don't think we can quantify how much your expertise has meant over the last 15+ years.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I know, I've read your thread. I was just joking. It looked great in all of its iterations.

Thanks for still engaging here (forums in general), I don't think we can quantify how much your expertise has meant over the last 15+ years.

Thanks, I appreciate it!

Happy Reefing. :)
 

Roli's Reef Ranch

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I have read up on the Moonshiner process. They rely on icp test to maintain their systems with no water changes. How are they successful at the adds they do if the tests are not accurate?
They use icp to add many different elements.
If icp is that inaccurate then how are they getting the results they attribute to their method?
Just wondering as I do not run their method.
Anybody who is running Moonshiners has to be in tune, interacting HEAVILY with their tank and will have better than average results simply due to this.
 

wmb0003

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Anybody who is running Moonshiners has to be in tune, interacting HEAVILY with their tank and will have better than average results simply due to this.
I think you summed it up pretty well. The shiners method has too many dailies to be put on a doser so this forces DAILY interaction with the tank, can’t get lazy. Also the monthly ICP will catch most issues before they become major problems. These 2 things make it hard to fail on this method(in my opinion).
 

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