ICP TEST RESULTS AFTER SOAKING TRAVERTINE TILE IN RO/DI

[Dr. Jim]

Just wanted to mention that PVC can also contain tin.

In my thread about my "Tin Problem" I mentioned that tin was also detected at suspicious levels from the sched. 80 pipes that came with the Red Sea Reefer 170 but they weren't leaching nearly as much as the green tubing that came in the set. Also, it seems like the tin leaching from the pvc diminished over the past 6 months. After I concluded that the green tubing is the culprit, I re-installed the grey pipes even though they are still leaching what I am hoping is an insignificant amount of tin. (As mentioned, I am replacing the green tubing with TYGON tubing which is supposed to be very inert).

Unfortunately, I believe tin leaches from more plastics/acrylics than what we might suspect. I found significant tin leaching from a brand new Red Sea Skimmer, and to a lesser extent from my 9-mo old Octopus Skimmer, and from a relatively new Kalk reactor. But nothing came close to the Sn = 1430 from the green tube (soaked in 1.5 gal RO/DI for 2 wks). As I was narrowing down the possibilities, two previous tests with the green tube plus other items, also had high levels....around 200.....so, my process of eliminating items finally narrowed down to just the green tube.


Thank you, Everybody, for sharing your thoughts and experiences.....much appreciated!

Jim

 

[therman]

I agree that it is unlikely that the tiles are harmful, especially in a large tank with a lot of growing corals that might, as you suggested, incorporate any unwanted metals in their skeletons. I will hold off using them though in my small 40 gal tank, especially because of all the problems I've been having with so many variables. But once my house sells and I move, I'm sure I will not hesitate to use them in my next system (which will be 300-500 gallons most likely).

One thing I'd have to wonder, in regard to the discrepancy between the state lab and ICP results that you mentioned: how do you know that the state lab is using equipment more accurate or as sophisticated as ICP? (No need to answer....just throwing this out there). Thanks for your comments.

The EPA maximum limit allowable for drinking water is 0.03 ppm of Uranium. The ICP result said I had 2.45 ppm. Pretty big discrepancy. The minimum detection level of the laboratory test was 0.010 ppm.

 

[SeaDweller]

You can get 20 REEF SAFE tiles for $6 online. Probably could find them for less if you shop around. If a few bucks breaks you in this hobby, I think you might be in the wrong hobby!

That’s great, go buy your tiles for $6, big baller!!! I should save up an extra $2, so I can pay for shipping and wait a week to get some insignificant tiles. Oh wait, I’ll just stick to mine. Seem to be REEF SAFE in my safe reef. I must be in the wrong hobby to respond to dumb comments like this.

Just curious....which are these reef-safe tiles that you mentioned.....and how do you know they are truly reef-safe (without testing them)?

Because the package says reef safe (it doesn’t), that’s how he knows

Coral Frag Tiles

Oceans Wonders Coral Frag Tiles are designed to sit next to each other with no gaps allowing corals to grow and spread across them. The square shape of the frag tiles is great for encrusting corals like montiopora, acropora, zoanthids, or other corals that will grow across a surface. We like to...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[RCeiver]

Just wanted to mention that PVC can also contain tin.

lots of things we put in our tanks contain tin. The question is, does it get released into the water

 

[RCeiver]

That’s great, go buy your tiles for $6, big baller!!! I should save up an extra $2, so I can pay for shipping and wait a week to get some insignificant tiles. Oh wait, I’ll just stick to mine. Seem to be REEF SAFE in my safe reef. I must be in the wrong hobby to respond to dumb comments like this.



Because the package says reef safe (it doesn’t), that’s how he knows

Coral Frag Tiles

Oceans Wonders Coral Frag Tiles are designed to sit next to each other with no gaps allowing corals to grow and spread across them. The square shape of the frag tiles is great for encrusting corals like montiopora, acropora, zoanthids, or other corals that will grow across a surface. We like to...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

I’d trust a manufacturer that has been making millions of frag plugs using a well documented reef safe material over a random building material I picked up from Home Depot. If you use travertine tiles you are basically playing Russian Roulette. You have no idea where your travertine comes from and what minerals and metals are imbedded within the stone.

who decided travertine was a good stone for reef tanks? It’s basically formed by evaporation of water and mostly from evaporation of mineral hot springs. These hot springs are generally a cessspool of dissolved solids and minerals which get concentrated into the rock. Literally the last type of rock I’d put in my tank.

 

[ScottR]

lots of things we put in our tanks contain tin. The question is, does it get released into the water

This has been tested and confirmed.

 

[RCeiver]

This has been tested and confirmed.

by whom?

 

[ScottR]

by whom?

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/triton-results-tin-sn-73-super-high.342934/ @Randy Holmes-Farley has documented this many times over.

 

[Dr. Jim]

That’s great, go buy your tiles for $6, big baller!!! I should save up an extra $2, so I can pay for shipping and wait a week to get some insignificant tiles. Oh wait, I’ll just stick to mine. Seem to be REEF SAFE in my safe reef. I must be in the wrong hobby to respond to dumb comments like this.



Because the package says reef safe (it doesn’t), that’s how he knows

Coral Frag Tiles

Oceans Wonders Coral Frag Tiles are designed to sit next to each other with no gaps allowing corals to grow and spread across them. The square shape of the frag tiles is great for encrusting corals like montiopora, acropora, zoanthids, or other corals that will grow across a surface. We like to...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Now now boys....let's not get into a fight over these tiles!

@bluprintguy, thank you for suggesting the Ocean Wonders tiles. Actually, I knew about them but they are only 1"x1" and I am interested in 2x2's and 4x4's. I bought 2x2's for now because of my small tank but once I move and set up my large grow-out system I will use the 4x4's. But, I do agree that I would have more confidence that the Ocean Wonders might be more "pure" but I would probably test them with ICP anyway after all my tin problems.

My plan was to put eggcrate over the top layer of rocks so I can set the 2x2 tiles on top and get maybe 80 frags in my cube. (I lost 21 other frags that I am confident was due to the tin!) As you can see in the photo, I'm out of space with my 40 frags. Maybe I should just concentrate on getting my house sold so I can get busy with my new build! (I may look for a house on a river in Virginia...in case anyone has any suggestions!)

 

[Dr. Jim]

The EPA maximum limit allowable for drinking water is 0.03 ppm of Uranium. The ICP result said I had 2.45 ppm. Pretty big discrepancy. The minimum detection level of the laboratory test was 0.010 ppm.

Wow! In that case I would certainly say that is a problem with the tests! (Didn't mean to sound like I doubted you!

I am convinced that some ICP tests (and companies) have to sometimes be taken with a 'grain of salt' but on the other hand, they can be helpful, (as in my case where I found that the tin was leaching from the green tubing). One example: during my 35 ICP tests, one test on a fresh batch of saltwater came back with elevated lead. That batch of water was used to soak various items in 4 different buckets/tanks and none of those results came back with any lead, so that made no sense. In general, I'm fairly confident with the ATI and Triton ICP tests....but the scientist in me always has a tinge of skepticism!

 

[therman]

I am not a "pusher" for travertine tiles. They just serve a purpose that commercially available tiles don't serve for me, and certainly not at the same price point. If I hadn't been using them for so long successfully I would probably be more skeptical. At this point I think I have stockpiled enough from the same source that I have used without any issues that I dont need to deal with "unknowns" from new suppliers.

And if you REALLY want to see some heads explode....my 2" tiles have filler in the holes, so they are smooth on top! ;Nailbiting

 

[SeaDweller]

I’d trust a manufacturer that has been making millions of frag plugs using a well documented reef safe material over a random building material I picked up from Home Depot. If you use travertine tiles you are basically playing Russian Roulette. You have no idea where your travertine comes from and what minerals and metals are imbedded within the stone.

who decided travertine was a good stone for reef tanks? It’s basically formed by evaporation of water and mostly from evaporation of mineral hot springs. These hot springs are generally a cessspool of dissolved solids and minerals which get concentrated into the rock. Literally the last type of rock I’d put in my tank.

I trust the results in my tank with these tiles. So unless you have first hand experience with them, in a tank, with acros on them, I doubt your opinion is valid.

 

[JBs_Reef]

my 2 cents:

Tin:
I had really elevated tin (and only Tin) when I set up my new system and lost some acros and a lot of color. After painstaking investigation I found out that flex PVC will leech Tin. Especially if you but the cheaper stuff like I did at Menards. The extrusions process will result in Tin leeching into your system. I used a TON of flex PVC because I wanted smooth corners and I have a big system with many tanks but it is a real issue. Good news is I was able to water change out the problem and things bounced back after the initial leeching.

Tiles:
The Tavertine tiles are a must use for those of use with very large grow out colonies in lots of flow (despite the price). The weight of the tile helps keep the colony where you want it. I need to find out the fill Tim is using

My recommendation is to soak EVERYTHING. If it claims to be "reef safe" or not, just try and plan ahead and throw the tiles or plugs into a bucket and swap out the water during a few water changes and then you shouldn't have any worries.

Emjoy!

 

[t5Nitro]

Can't wait to start using these tiles. Still need to make a low raised egg crate rack and then id like to fill the top with tile and coral for nice flow all around.

 

[JCOLE]

Can't wait to start using these tiles. Still need to make a low raised egg crate rack and then id like to fill the top with tile and coral for nice flow all around.

That is exactly how I have mine set up in my frag tank. I had them without egg crate for a couple of months and I had a lot of detritus build up around the tiles. After raising them up an inch or so I no longer have this issue.

I cut my tiles and soaked them in distilled vinegar for a couple of days. Scrubbed the tiles with a hard toothbrush. Rinsed and soaked them with Tank water from a water change and added beneficial bacteria to the bucket. Let that soak for about 2 weeks. It might be overkill but it seems to have worked out well for me.

 

[t5Nitro]

That is exactly how I have mine set up in my frag tank. I had them without egg crate for a couple of months and I had a lot of detritus build up around the tiles. After raising them up an inch or so I no longer have this issue.

I cut my tiles and soaked them in distilled vinegar for a couple of days. Scrubbed the tiles with a hard toothbrush. Rinsed and soaked them with Tank water from a water change and added beneficial bacteria to the bucket. Let that soak for about 2 weeks. It might be overkill but it seems to have worked out well for me.

Sounds good! I have to rearrange some rock on my bottom glass to figure out how to place the crate and tiles in there yet. It'd be going in my display. Thanks for the input for curing them!!

 

[OnPointCorals]

This is an interesting thread. My current and last tank I used these travetine tiles and ICP always came back slightly elevated tin and Aluminum. I always just assumed it was coming from the marine pure blocks I've used. I never really worried about it as it never seemed to cause any issues.

 

[therman]

Someone just messaged me again about travertine tiles again, so I hunted down this thread to check for updates. After talking with a friend about tin and PVC I did a quick google and found this:

Tin - PVC Stabilizers - Specialty Polymers | Chemical Products by SONGWON Industrial Group

SONGWON is a manufacturer of tin intermediates, pvc stabilizers & specialty polymers that are used in the coating, automotive, adhesive & pvc industry.

www.songwon.com

PVC Stabilizers' "main components are metal soaps, metal salts, and organa-metal compounds"....it is like a who's who of nasty gremlins to introduce into your tank

 

[SamsReef]

I have been using ceramic tiles. Plain white 8 by 4 inch ceramic tiles to grow mushrooms and zoas and let it spread...It’s also easier to cut with bone cutter.

 

[Cory]

Wow! In that case I would certainly say that is a problem with the tests! (Didn't mean to sound like I doubted you!

I am convinced that some ICP tests (and companies) have to sometimes be taken with a 'grain of salt' but on the other hand, they can be helpful, (as in my case where I found that the tin was leaching from the green tubing). One example: during my 35 ICP tests, one test on a fresh batch of saltwater came back with elevated lead. That batch of water was used to soak various items in 4 different buckets/tanks and none of those results came back with any lead, so that made no sense. In general, I'm fairly confident with the ATI and Triton ICP tests....but the scientist in me always has a tinge of skepticism!

Thanks for making these tests! Maybe youve got dust in the air? Any metal shops near you? You should cover stuff before you test it.