If I would have known dinos existed I’m not sure I would have gotten into this hobby.

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undermind

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So you're saying many of them won't go through the sterilizer, not that the dino's are immune to UV. Am I correct? If they are free floating in the water column with an appropriately size sterilizer, why wouldn't they be going through the sterilizer?
There are many possible reasons why UV may not be effective against them. The UV may not have an appropriate flow rate, the contact time may not be right, it may be a type of dino that UVs aren't known to be effective against, the number of dinos actually sterilized by the UV may not be great enough to make a dent in the overall population or reproduction rate, etcetera, etcetera.

As you continue to try to find a crack in my statements, you ignore the only thing that really matters, and the only point I've made from the beginning. UV is not an absolute solution. And this should be taken into consideration by someone who's about to quit the hobby, considerate of expenses, and hasn't made an ID on the dinos.
 
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GarrettT

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I had prorocentrum Dinos.....bought a UV at first (advice from people on this forum) - and it did nothing. I dosed Silicates (cheap and effective), and was able to bring my Dino's under control.
If UV did nothing, then I'd imagine its because you either:
1. You didn't do a black out while running the UV
2. Didn't have the right size sterilizer
3. Didn't use the right amount of flow

Just speculating, but the vast majority of people get it wrong, and then blame the equipment for not working. I had prorocentrum too.
 

GarrettT

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As you continue to try to find a crack in my statements, you ignore the only thing that really matters, and the only point I've made from the beginning. UV is not an absolute solution
If you read through all my post, you will realize that you are only arguing with yourself. No one ever said it's an absolute solution. It will do nothing against large cell that takes hold on the sand.
 
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clhardy5

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If UV did nothing, then I'd imagine its because you either:
1. You didn't do a black out while running the UV
2. Didn't have the right size sterilizer
3. Didn't use the right amount of flow

Just speculating, but the vast majority of people get it wrong, and then blame the equipment for not working. I had prorocentrum too.
Nope and Nope.

1. Black outs don't work all the time - just delay - plenty of reading on this.
2. I had an oversized UV on my tank - as was recommended.
3. Flow was what was recommended for Dinos.....I used a Sicce pump and dialed it in to maximize exposure.

The only think that fought the prorocentrum back was dosing silicate. I had tried EVERYTHING before that......Then....read everything I could.....id'd my type, and boom.....after about 2 months (give or take a week)...they were under control.

I also now believe that it is very important to increase the biodiversity in the tank - so that other things (not just diatoms) will out compete the Dinos.
 

clhardy5

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So you're saying many of them won't go through the sterilizer, not that the dino's are immune to UV. Am I correct? If they are free floating in the water column with an appropriately size sterilizer, why wouldn't they be going through the sterilizer?
I imagine not ALL water will go through the sterilizer unless you have it directly plumbed into the return....but with Dinos.....aren't you supposed to plump it directly into the main tank? I definitely could be wrong on this, but that is what I remember.

Anyway, I guess then the game is - can you sterilize the Dinos faster than they can reproduce? Well....if some of the Dinos decide to make their permanent home on the rocks, or in the sand - they may never make it to the UV. I tried blowing off my sand rocks and sand several times a day when I was running the uv....praying that those suckers would make it to the UV and be eradicated. Didn't work for me.


Like I said previously - it is nearly impossible to eradicate Dinos from the tank - the goal is to control them, and keep them from blooming.

According to my DNA report, I have amphidium and ostreo in my big tank now - even though I was running an oversized UV 24/7. I removed it a couple of days ago because it was altering some of the other bacteria numbers. Oh and my Nitrates run about 10 and Phosphates fluctuate between .03 and .1. So definitely do NOT have low nutrients. Luckily I can't see the Dinos - but they are there.

I don't believe you can fight Dinos with a one size fits all program. I also don't believe that a UV is the miracle cure.....and can be an expense you may not have to make.
 
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GarrettT

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For those that stay on the sand, dose silicates to cause diatoms to outcompete them, for all others, use a UV (properly).
We are 7 pages deep in this thread and this is literally the ONLY statement that we are trying to get across to people!

If you care to argue with this statement, PLEASE share your reasons as to why, so that this thread doesn't get derailed.

Also, yes, we know many different type of dinos exist, but the vast majority of them use the exact same method for removal. It's deceiving to say every dino needs a different and specific type of treatment. If you believe there is a type of dino that can't be managed using silicate dosing and UV sterilization, plz share.
 
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JNalley

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I imagine not ALL water will go through the sterilizer unless you have it directly plumbed into the return....but with Dinos.....aren't you supposed to plump it directly into the main tank?
If, in both scenarios, the water is circulated by a pump, then either the return does not get all water going through it, or the sterilizer ALSO gets all water flowing through it. Both things cannot be true at the same time.

But yes, mainly due to flow reasons (3x tank turnover is not ideal for filtration purposes), or ease of use (plumbing a UV in a Y off your return is a process best left for AFTER you combat the infestation) it is common to set up a sterilizer on a closed-loop directly in a display.
 

GarrettT

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Oh and my Nitrates run about 10 and Phosphates fluctuate between .03 and .1. So definitely do NOT have low nutrients. Luckily I can't see the Dinos - but they are there.
Are you using a Hanna URL checker for your po4? If not, I recommend that you raise your ppm. If so, that's a good number.
 
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clhardy5

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If, in both scenarios, the water is circulated by a pump, then either the return does not get all water going through it, or the sterilizer ALSO gets all water flowing through it. Both things cannot be true at the same time.

But yes, mainly due to flow reasons (3x tank turnover is not ideal for filtration purposes), or ease of use (plumbing a UV in a Y off your return is a process best left for AFTER you combat the infestation) it is common to set up a sterilizer on a closed-loop directly in a display.
True....I stand corrected.....but, then, not all the Dinos are going into the UV either.....especially not the ones clinging to the rocks or in the sand bed.
 

clhardy5

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Are you using a Hanna URL checker for your po4? If not, I recommend that you raise your ppm. If so, that's a good number.
Yes....I use Hanna URL for phosphates, and Hanna for nitrates as well. The last month or so, it hangs out right below/above .1. I don't have nuisance algae, so I'm fine with those numbers.
 
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GarrettT

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True....I stand corrected.....but, then, not all the Dinos are going into the UV either.....especially not the ones clinging to the rocks or in the sand bed.
If you can't remove the dinos from the rocks with a turkey baster, then silicate dosing is the only way to go imo, especially if one does a black out while running the UV. Now if I had dinos on the sand, I personally would recommend people go straight to silicate dosing.
 

Fishy888

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I've seen it in stores, but my LFS is a good 30min drive, so I just buy off amazon. Just know, you want your tank to look awful. Diatoms are not supposed to be visually appealing.
When you've been battling dinos for ages and the diatoms overtake the dinos, those diatoms look better than platinum....

For me running a 13 watt sterilizer in the Display, getting live rock from a friend who's tanks are mature and immaculate, getting flow high enough to gently tumble the sand bed, and getting my nutrients up, especially nitrates, fixed things for me.

Like many have said in this thread though, there are some who benefit from doing what I did and some who don't. Nothing is 100% guaranteed after all but the UV sterilizer, beneficial bacteria, and silicates have a high chance of working.
 

GarrettT

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Nothing is 100% guaranteed after all but the UV sterilizer, beneficial bacteria, and silicates have a high chance of working.
Honestly, I'd go far enough to say it is 100%. If not dosing silicate and/or UV sterilization, what other methods are reliably known to work? Both methods are highly aggressive and effective ime. If someone is still having issues with dinos, I'd bet any amount of money that they are feeding reef roids or some other type of coral ''aka dino'' food.
 
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aggrofish

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Honestly, I'd go far enough to say it is 100%. If not dosing silicate and/or UV sterilization, what other methods are reliably known to work? Both methods are highly aggressive and effective ime. If someone is still having issues with dinos, I'd bet any amount of money that they are feeding reef roids or some other type of coral ''aka dino'' food.
I'll take that bet. The problem is several in this thread are speaking in absolutes. People that beat dinos like to suggest that whatever they did to beat dinos will work for the next guy. I didnt dose anything besides DKH and Calcium. I did no water changes for 6 months. I plumbed a UV directly from the return and measured flow with an apex module. I'm sure the UV helped with free floating dinos that went into the water column from be siphoning the sand and blowing off the rocks. It's possible that the UV kept the dinos relegated to the sand as that's where 95% of mine were.

The prorocentrum I had DID NOT go into the water column and dosing up to 3x the amount of silicate never fueled diatoms, although it did something as evidenced by a tank full of sponges. I wasnt going to do more than a 3 day blackout as over half my coral already died and what was left wasnt doing great. 6 months of dosing PO4/NO3 / certainly grew a lot of GHA but it didnt outcompete dinos. Countless bottles of MB7/MB clean seemed to have only wasted a lot of money. DIY coral snow to "in theory" bind to free floating particles after siphoning sand into the filter socks which I was doing 2x daily. Dosing phyto didnt knock back dinos but it did lead to an insane amount of pods which I guess isn't a bad thing.

Again OP get a positive ID and THEN come up with a reasonable plan.
 

GarrettT

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I'm sure the UV helped with free floating dinos that went into the water column from be siphoning the sand and blowing off the rocks.
If your siphoning your sand, then there’s your issue. It doesn’t matter how much silicate you put in the water, dinos will win. I’m a big advocate against siphoning the sand.
Again OP get a positive ID and THEN come up with a reasonable plan.
It’s like a never ending ferris wheel. What EXACTLY would you do different even with an ID? People keep making comments like this, then they either go ghost or provide a long response that does nothing but dodges the question.
 

JustJoan

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I've seen it in stores, but my LFS is a good 30min drive, so I just buy off amazon. Just know, you want your tank to look awful. Diatoms are not supposed to be visually appealing.
Just to let you know, i ordered silicate from Amazon on June 4. They said it would be delivered on June 28, which is already a long time. Since then, they have changed the delivery date to July 28 to September 1. I tried to cancel and they won't let me, say it is already in transit.
 
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If your siphoning your sand, then there’s your issue. It doesn’t matter how much silicate you put in the water, dinos will win. I’m a big advocate against siphoning the sand.

It’s like a never ending ferris wheel. What EXACTLY would you do different even with an ID? People keep making comments like this, then they either go ghost or provide a long response that does nothing but dodges the question.
I wouldn't waste $400 - $500 on a UV if you have a type of dino that it is ineffective against. Is that clear enough?

If you want a UV for water clarity - fine. If you want a UV to help protect against fish diseases - fine. If you want a UV to reduce algae or clear a bacterial bloom - Fine. But as a standard recommendation and the go to for ALL dinos - no.
 

GarrettT

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I wouldn't waste $400 - $500 on a UV if you have a type of dino that it is ineffective against. Is that clear enough?

If you want a UV for water clarity - fine. If you want a UV to help protect against fish diseases - fine. If you want a UV to reduce algae or clear a bacterial bloom - Fine. But as a standard recommendation and the go to for ALL dinos - no.
Sigh....
For those that stay on the sand, dose silicates to cause diatoms to outcompete them, for all others, use a UV (properly).
We are 7 pages deep in this thread and this is literally the ONLY statement that we are trying to get across to people!

If you care to argue with this statement, PLEASE share your reasons as to why, so that this thread doesn't get derailed.

Also, yes, we know many different type of dinos exist, but the vast majority of them use the exact same method for removal. It's deceiving to say every dino needs a different and specific type of treatment. If you believe there is a type of dino that can't be managed using silicate dosing and UV sterilization, plz share.
 
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