If I would have known dinos existed I’m not sure I would have gotten into this hobby.

[justinfitts]

Assuming it’s a dino that’s not large cell, how would you treat that specific type differently? I’d pick silicate over a black out everytime. Silicate isn’t unnatural or damning in any way.

What specifically would you do different with an ID?

Large Cell Amphidiniums are the hardest to kill of the bunch. It is likely to be more than one type in the system. Starting with UV will remove the type (unknown as of now) that will enter the water column at night. Typically after 1-2 weeks of UV you should see a decrease in that Dino. You can continue to run the UV while dosing silicates to 4ppm, but the UV will have a small affect on the diatom bloom. You want the diatom bloom to show up because they will out compete the LCA if that is in fact present. This method much easier than blasting the rocks and trying to manually get them into the water column as research shows UV has little impact on them anyway. If you read Jason Mack’s direction it is all outlined exactly how to fight each type most efficiently and effectively. I am not an expert, but only giving some insight as to what worked for me fighting Ostreopsis and LCA at the same time.

 

[justinfitts]

Yes I remember having diatoms when I started my tank, definitely not a good look.

The diatoms actually show up in new systems because the silicates are present from new sand and dry rock. Once the silicates settle and are consumed typically that new tank diatom bloom goes away on its own.

 

[JNalley]

as research shows UV has little impact on them anyway.

Can you show me this research? Do you have a link to it?

 

[GarrettT]

Large Cell Amphidiniums are the hardest to kill of the bunch. It is likely to be more than one type in the system. Starting with UV will remove the type (unknown as of now) that will enter the water column at night. Typically after 1-2 weeks of UV you should see a decrease in that Dino. You can continue to run the UV while dosing silicates to 4ppm, but the UV will have a small affect on the diatom bloom. You want the diatom bloom to show up because they will out compete the LCA if that is in fact present. This method much easier than blasting the rocks and trying to manually get them into the water column as research shows UV has little impact on them anyway. If you read Jason Mack’s direction it is all outlined exactly how to fight each type most efficiently and effectively. I am not an expert, but only giving some insight as to what worked for me fighting Ostreopsis and LCA at the same time.

You will still need to blast dinos into the water column, regardless of the type. That part has nothing to do with dosing silicate dosing, but UV specifically. I have zero trouble growing diatoms while running a UV sterilizer. Any research to support this?

When you say “Research shows UV has little impact on them.” What does that mean exactly? That if they go through the UV, they will be unaffected?

 

[Reef.]

Large Cell Amphidiniums are the hardest to kill of the bunch. It is likely to be more than one type in the system. Starting with UV will remove the type (unknown as of now) that will enter the water column at night. Typically after 1-2 weeks of UV you should see a decrease in that Dino. You can continue to run the UV while dosing silicates to 4ppm, but the UV will have a small affect on the diatom bloom. You want the diatom bloom to show up because they will out compete the LCA if that is in fact present. This method much easier than blasting the rocks and trying to manually get them into the water column as research shows UV has little impact on them anyway. If you read Jason Mack’s direction it is all outlined exactly how to fight each type most efficiently and effectively. I am not an expert, but only giving some insight as to what worked for me fighting Ostreopsis and LCA at the same time.

Well I’ll give you this, you have literally encapsulated the Dino help thread in two posts…get an ID!!! but it wont really matter anyway as you’ll have more than one type in the tank…use a UV but it’ll be of little use so why bother…but most importantly get that ID!

 

[Just John]

Here are a couple of things that might help. One is a great dino id guide by @taricha. You do not need a microscope, as there are also text descriptions. Also, because the dinos were going into the water column at night and then settling during the day, so I put a ton of floss inside the tank itself for them to settle on and rinsed it out before the lights went out again the next night. A UV sterilizer is what finally finished them off.

 

[GarrettT]

This is what I used… get an ID before you do anything!!!

Assuming it’s a dino that’s not large cell, how would you treat that specific type differently? I’d pick silicate over a black out everytime. Silicate isn’t unnatural or damning in any way.

What specifically would you do different with an ID?

Large Cell Amphidiniums are the hardest to kill of the bunch. It is likely to be more than one type in the system. Starting with UV will remove the type (unknown as of now) that will enter the water column at night. Typically after 1-2 weeks of UV you should see a decrease in that Dino. You can continue to run the UV while dosing silicates to 4ppm, but the UV will have a small affect on the diatom bloom. You want the diatom bloom to show up because they will out compete the LCA if that is in fact present. This method much easier than blasting the rocks and trying to manually get them into the water column as research shows UV has little impact on them anyway. If you read Jason Mack’s direction it is all outlined exactly how to fight each type most efficiently and effectively. I am not an expert, but only giving some insight as to what worked for me fighting Ostreopsis and LCA at the same time.

So dose silicate and run UV..... You realize, we are right back where we were and the ID has changed nothing right? Again, why is an ID so important?

 

[JNalley]

So dose silicate and run UV..... You realize, we are right back where we were and the ID has changed nothing right? Again, why is an ID so important?

As is often the case... this is our current situation

"Oh snap! I see a mountain up ahead!"

"Umm, sir... That's a molehill"

 

[JNalley]

These forums sometimes remind me of a few scenes from "The Never Ending Story"

I picture a new reefer, represented by Atreyu, setting out on their journey with determination.

They find R2R, and think, "Oh man, Jackpot!"

They find their first problem in their tank, and want to attack it head on...

Then they start reading and have to weed through all of the posts...

Sometimes, they find the lucky post with good information

But sometimes, it ends in failure

 

[Dburr1014]

These forums sometimes remind me of a few scenes from "The Never Ending Story"

I picture a new reefer, represented by Atreyu, setting out on their journey with determination.

They find R2R, and think, "Oh man, Jackpot!"

They find their first problem in their tank, and want to attack it head on...

Then they start reading and have to weed through all of the posts...

Sometimes, they find the lucky post with good information

But sometimes, it ends in failure

Exactly!

 

[GarrettT]

We've all done it, myself included, which is why we can all laugh about it. I've shared many strong opinions that have ended with me looking like an absolute dud. It part of the initiation process. Welcome to reef2reef, Justin!

 

[undermind]

As stated….

The OP has already stated in this thread that his Dinos do clear at night.

A UV worked for me.

It’s equally frustrating when people keep suggesting a microscope when the money could be put straight into a UV, those that keep recommending to ID the dinos first always seem to then go on to either suggest the same method of removal no matter which dinos were ID, or to suggest a UV, when a UV was probably an obvious solution from the start, I keep hearing about all these thousands of Dinos and how ID is so important, which nearly always results in the suggestion of either the use of a UV or not.

I was waiting for someone to say this. It is NOT a fact that if dinos go into the water column at night or if you baste them into the column at night that they will be killed by UV. Sometimes even types that go into the water column at night won't be affected. Ask me how I know.

Reading the people yelling UV in this thread would give me the impression that UV always kills dinos, and that you don't need to ID. I'm very glad I've spent time learning about them and know better.

Don't misunderstand me, I would love it if the UV that the OP has bought will kill his/her dinos. That's the outcome I'm rooting for. But considering the "I'm about to quit" and the "is there a cheaper route" comments, I'm considerate of those things, and believe that buying a UV without an ID or a plan is not a path to 100% success.

If UV always worked, then no one would care about getting them, and every 6th thread on Reef2Reef wouldn't be about them.

 

[JNalley]

I was waiting for someone to say this. It is NOT a fact that if dinos go into the water column at night or if you baste them into the column at night that they will be killed by UV. Sometimes even types that go into the water column at night won't be affected. Ask me how I know.

Reading the people yelling UV in this thread would give me the impression that UV always kills dinos, and that you don't need to ID. I'm very glad I've spent time learning about them and know better.

Don't misunderstand me, I would love it if the UV that the OP has bought will kill his/her dinos. That's the outcome I'm rooting for. But considering the "I'm about to quit" and the "is there a cheaper route" comments, I'm considerate of those things, and believe that buying a UV without an ID or a plan is not a path to 100% success.

If UV always worked, then no one would care about getting them, and every 6th thread on Reef2Reef wouldn't be about them.

Point to research where UVC does not Sterilize a species of Dino's when exposed to it, please. So far, no person I've asked has been able to point to anything other than anecdotal evidence. There are plenty of studies that show the effects of UVC on micro-organisms, different Dino species included. So the onus is on people making the claim that UVC doesn't kill a specific species of Dino, yet I've never seen anything to the contrary, and if it exists, I would be very much interested in reading it...

 

[clhardy5]

So dose silicate and run UV..... You realize, we are right back where we were and the ID has changed nothing right? Again, why is an ID so important?

My guess is to save the OP money. UV's are expensive....you can get a kids microscope pretty cheap - or even borrow one from a friend with a "sciencey" kid, and really target the treatment cost effectively. I had prorocentrum Dinos.....bought a UV at first (advice from people on this forum) - and it did nothing. I dosed Silicates (cheap and effective), and was able to bring my Dino's under control. You will NEVER fully get rid of them - they are always in the tank - they just won't overrun everything if you can get the balance back in your tank.

I recently had a tank DNA test done on my new tank - and it showed that I have dinoflagellates in my tank currently -although at very small levels. Oh...AND I was constantly running a UV . I've since removed it.

It is also interesting that Eli at Aquabiomics was able to tell that I was using a UV, as some of the expected bacteria in my tank was not present at levels expected - indicating the the UV does lower some types of beneficial bacteria in the tank. So running a UV 24/7 may lower your tank's diversity.

 

[GarrettT]

Sometimes even types that go into the water column at night won't be affected. Ask me how I know.

Are you suggesting that some dinos are immune to UV and unaffected as they go through the sterilizer?

Reading the people yelling UV in this thread would give me the impression that UV always kills dinos, and that you don't need to ID. I'm very glad I've spent time learning about them and know better.

Learning and know better.... Please tell..... That's quite the statement.

 

[clhardy5]

Point to research where UVC does not Sterilize a species of Dino's when exposed to it, please. So far, no person I've asked has been able to point to anything other than anecdotal evidence. There are plenty of studies that show the effects of UVC on micro-organisms, different Dino species included. So the onus is on people making the claim that UVC doesn't kill a specific species of Dino, yet I've never seen anything to the contrary, and if it exists, I would be very much interested in reading it...

I don't think anyone was saying that UV doesn't have an effect on all types of Dinos - the question is to what effect? The Dinos have to be in the water column for UV to have much of an effect....so if they are a type that generally stays on the sand (going down into the sand at night) - or rocks....well.....the UV isn't going to do much good.

Like I said in a previous post....for the last 6 months, I had been running a UV 24/7.....yet....my DNA report says I currently have Ostreopsis and Amphidium in my tank - which I have confirmed with a microscope, and sampling some sand. Good news is that they are not at the levels that cause trouble....I can't even see them with my naked eye.

I've since turned off my UV, and am working about increasing the biodiversity in my tank - (should have some live sand coming today)

 

[undermind]

Point to research where UVC does not Sterilize a species of Dino's when exposed to it, please. So far, no person I've asked has been able to point to anything other than anecdotal evidence. There are plenty of studies that show the effects of UVC on micro-organisms, different Dino species included. So the onus is on people making the claim that UVC doesn't kill a specific species of Dino, yet I've never seen anything to the contrary, and if it exists, I would be very much interested in reading it...

I never said UVC doesn't sterilize them. I said that it's not a fact that if dinos go into the water column at night or if you baste them into the column at night that they will be killed by UV – to quote myself.

I actually don't even care about whether the UV sterilizes or kills dinos; or research thereabout. My concern is whether UV eliminates the dino infestations in our tanks. Because that's what frustrates us.

Most of the advice in this thread seems to be based on personal experience. Personal experience is not evidence. And those with personal experience of UV getting rid of their dinos does not mean that this will be true for everyone. For every person that successfully wipes out dinos with UV, there's someone else who tried the same thing, and it didn't.

Spend some time in the "Are you tired of battling altogether" thread or on the Facebook group mentioned here, and it will be evident that UV is not an absolute solution. I reiterate, if it were, these threads would have 1 reply, instead of 700 pages of replies.

 

[JNalley]

I don't think anyone was saying that UV doesn't have an effect on all types of Dinos - the question is to what effect? The Dinos have to be in the water column for UV to have much of an effect....so if they are a type that generally stays on the sand (going down into the sand at night) - or rocks....well.....the UV isn't going to do much good.

See here:

I was waiting for someone to say this. It is NOT a fact that if dinos go into the water column at night or if you baste them into the column at night that they will be killed by UV. Sometimes even types that go into the water column at night won't be affected. Ask me how I know.

Reading the people yelling UV in this thread would give me the impression that UV always kills dinos, and that you don't need to ID. I'm very glad I've spent time learning about them and know better.

Don't misunderstand me, I would love it if the UV that the OP has bought will kill his/her dinos. That's the outcome I'm rooting for. But considering the "I'm about to quit" and the "is there a cheaper route" comments, I'm considerate of those things, and believe that buying a UV without an ID or a plan is not a path to 100% success.

If UV always worked, then no one would care about getting them, and every 6th thread on Reef2Reef wouldn't be about them.

This indicates that UV sterilization has no effect on some species of dino's when exposed... And I've never seen any evidence to the contrary.

I agree with you in that some species stay/dwell in the sand. Everyone in this thread has already stated numerous times. For those that stay on the sand, dose silicates to cause diatoms to outcompete them, for all others, use a UV (properly). I would also add to this that so far, after helping 15-ish people get rid of their Dino's, turning the temperature up to 82 degrees AND running a UV has caused even the sand dwellers to go away after 2 weeks. Correlation does not equal causation, however, the results have been repeatable with different people and different tanks... This leads me to believe that either the heat component is doing something to the Dino's, or, it's causing them to release into the water column and the UV is sterilizing them allowing them to not reproduce...

 

[GarrettT]

Spend some time in the "Are you tired of battling altogether" thread or on the Facebook group mentioned here, and it will be evident that UV is not an absolute solution. I reiterate, if it were, these threads would have 1 reply, instead of 700 pages of replies.

Curious..... so what was effective silicate?

 

[GarrettT]

I never said UVC doesn't sterilize them. I said that it's not a fact that if dinos go into the water column at night or if you baste them into the column at night that they will be killed by UV – to quote myself.

So you're saying many of them won't go through the sterilizer, not that the dino's are immune to UV. Am I correct? If they are free floating in the water column with an appropriately size sterilizer, why wouldn't they be going through the sterilizer?