Impending disaster :(

[CDavmd]

Sooo....despite my precautions I think I have a disaster starting in my new system. I'm leaning Velvet but could be Ich.

System is about 5 months old
-Started with Marco Rock, Tropic Eden Sand, and about 10 pounds of KP Aquatics live rock from Florida. I further seeded with a mixture of Pods from AlgaeBarn and mixed pods from Florida Pets that I get on a monthly basis and add to the system.
-Lights out and cycled with Dr. Tim's, Microbacter 7, and Fritz Turbo.
-Maintained lights out and Fallow for 2.5 months
-Added first test corals around 2.5- months...they took off
-Added first fish around 3 months and continued further additions every week or so as they completed their Quarantine.

All Fish were Quarantined in Copperpower for 14 days with addition of General Cure x 2 rounds and Metroplex x 3 rounds. Then observed for a week ( I probably should have waited longer).

The final fish additions were two fish that I have had for over 5 years in my old system that is coming down. I had moved all my coral over and all that remained were these two; a Tomini and a Black Cap Basslet. They stayed in the old system while I was finishing with the other fish additions, etc.

I did not treat these two with Copper or Meds (I think this was my BIG Mistake). I have had them healthy for 5 years!

The new system has really taken off, Coralline coverage is excellent, SPS are thriving and it was hitting that good time of increasing growth and maturation. The fish were all doing well, active feeding, etc.

The Fish:
-paired antennae Goby
-paired Firefish
-Tail spot blenny
-3 Juvenile clowns
-red fin fairy wrasse
-banana wrasse
-melanurus wrasse
-Tomini Tang
-Black Cap Basslet

No aggression in the tank to speak of other than one of the clowns is starting to exert dominance and get larger.

Sooooo all was well and earlier this week I noticed one of the fire fish making a dive on occasion and striking its abdomen on the sand....hmmm concern but they are know to do this.
Two days ago, several fish scratching on rocks- mainly the malanurus and tail spot blenny. The red fin fairy was not scratching but looked to have a few tiny white specs on the top of his head.
Yesterday I noticed a few more fish scratching on rocks very intermittently. The banana wrasse, tail spot blenny, malanurus, and firefish. Of note, the Black Cap Basslet was not coming out to feed and a couple times when I did see him he seemed a touch erratic.

Last night with lights out when I got home from work- The black cap basslet was in a corner of the tank. With a flashlight I thought he looked very "frosted" and maybe an area with scales sloughing off. He was breathing fast. I turned on only the red lights and tried to get him out but he went for the rocks and has not come back out.

This morning all the fish are still very active, feeding and acting normal with the exception of the occasional scratch. The spots on the red fin fairy are gone. I can see the Black Cap in a crack of the rocks and he moves so I know he is alive but I can't get a good look.

I'm seriously concerned and my initial thought was velvet or Brook given how the Black Cap looked last night (albeit- it was in the dark so I did not have a good view). However, I would have imagined more fish seriously ill by now if it were one of these two. Further the Clowns are just fine with no signs of anything. I tried catching a few this morning. Got the Clowns but everyone else has hidden and the wrasses are in the sand or rocks. No way I am going to get anyone out at the moment, Hoping I can get some more tonight under red light.

I fear I am on the precipice and it all going to unravel at any moment. I was careful but I guess not careful enough.

One word- SUCKS!

 

[cancun]

Sooo....despite my precautions I think I have a disaster starting in my new system. I'm leaning Velvet but could be Ich.

System is about 5 months old
-Started with Marco Rock, Tropic Eden Sand, and about 10 pounds of KP Aquatics live rock from Florida. I further seeded with a mixture of Pods from AlgaeBarn and mixed pods from Florida Pets that I get on a monthly basis and add to the system.
-Lights out and cycled with Dr. Tim's, Microbacter 7, and Fritz Turbo.
-Maintained lights out and Fallow for 2.5 months
-Added first test corals around 2.5- months...they took off
-Added first fish around 3 months and continued further additions every week or so as they completed their Quarantine.

All Fish were Quarantined in Copperpower for 14 days with addition of General Cure x 2 rounds and Metroplex x 3 rounds. Then observed for a week ( I probably should have waited longer).

The final fish additions were two fish that I have had for over 5 years in my old system that is coming down. I had moved all my coral over and all that remained were these two; a Tomini and a Black Cap Basslet. They stayed in the old system while I was finishing with the other fish additions, etc.

I did not treat these two with Copper or Meds (I think this was my BIG Mistake). I have had them healthy for 5 years!

The new system has really taken off, Coralline coverage is excellent, SPS are thriving and it was hitting that good time of increasing growth and maturation. The fish were all doing well, active feeding, etc.

The Fish:
-paired antennae Goby
-paired Firefish
-Tail spot blenny
-3 Juvenile clowns
-red fin fairy wrasse
-banana wrasse
-melanurus wrasse
-Tomini Tang
-Black Cap Basslet

No aggression in the tank to speak of other than one of the clowns is starting to exert dominance and get larger.

Sooooo all was well and earlier this week I noticed one of the fire fish making a dive on occasion and striking its abdomen on the sand....hmmm concern but they are know to do this.
Two days ago, several fish scratching on rocks- mainly the malanurus and tail spot blenny. The red fin fairy was not scratching but looked to have a few tiny white specs on the top of his head.
Yesterday I noticed a few more fish scratching on rocks very intermittently. The banana wrasse, tail spot blenny, malanurus, and firefish. Of note, the Black Cap Basslet was not coming out to feed and a couple times when I did see him he seemed a touch erratic.

Last night with lights out when I got home from work- The black cap basslet was in a corner of the tank. With a flashlight I thought he looked very "frosted" and maybe an area with scales sloughing off. He was breathing fast. I turned on only the red lights and tried to get him out but he went for the rocks and has not come back out.

This morning all the fish are still very active, feeding and acting normal with the exception of the occasional scratch. The spots on the red fin fairy are gone. I can see the Black Cap in a crack of the rocks and he moves so I know he is alive but I can't get a good look.

I'm seriously concerned and my initial thought was velvet or Brook given how the Black Cap looked last night (albeit- it was in the dark so I did not have a good view). However, I would have imagined more fish seriously ill by now if it were one of these two. Further the Clowns are just fine with no signs of anything. I tried catching a few this morning. Got the Clowns but everyone else has hidden and the wrasses are in the sand or rocks. No way I am going to get anyone out at the moment, Hoping I can get some more tonight under red light.

I fear I am on the precipice and it all going to unravel at any moment. I was careful but I guess not careful enough.

One word- SUCKS!

Oh man! I am so sorry for what is going on the your fish! It's terrible when you do everything you can and then this happens! I am keeping my fingers crossed for you!

 

[HotRocks]

1 question. Were the corals that were added just before the fish brand new or from an existing system.

If they were new (to your tanks) that could have introduced something.

 

[CDavmd]

1 question. Were the corals that were added just before the fish brand new or from an existing system.

If they were new (to your tanks) that could have introduced something.

Hi Hotrocks, the ones added before the fish were mainly from the old system. A few new frags were from my frag system that had been growing out ranging from 4-12 weeks. Everything got dipped in Bayer before bringing them over. I guess something may have been lurking in the frag system. Frustrating.

 

[CDavmd]

.....so I saw the Black cap peek out of the rocks a little bit ago. Still breathing faster than normal but not as labored as last night. From the best I could see, I do not see any white dusting or specks on him. All the other fish seem ok and active as usual.....just fed them and they all took food readily. Just noting occasional scratching by the those previously mentioned.

I'm going to assume this is Ich....velvet or brook should have wiped out the tank by now. Time will tell....but I guess I went from @Humblefish's "keep it out" to "control" mode. Bummed, really hoped not to have anything like this in this new system. I'm going to put a 5 micron sock in my sump and start feeding a little garlic with the food. No room for UV in my sump but I guess I could run it intermittently as a hang on like BRS is doing currently in their new experiments.

Interestingly, I realized that I gave the 1 inch sand bed a good stir last sunday and ran my powerheads at high for a couple hours to stir things up and keep the detritus suspended. This has always been part of my routine in every system I've owned. I wonder if the warmer temperatures this week (we are hitting 100 today in Boston) and the big stir caused a bunch of cysts to hatch?

We'll see....hoping for the best but not optimistic. At least no fish losses yet.

 

[Robb1414]

Fingers and toes crossed for you...I am going through something similar but my outcome isn't as good as yours!

 

[HotRocks]

Ugh. Sorry to hear that.

FWIW. Coral dips like coral RX, Bayer, etc. Will not remove encysted tomonts releasing free swimmers looking for a fish to host. They only remove coral pests.

OP this is probably how you introduced something unwanted into your system. It's rather difficult to keep multiple systems clean especially if you are constantly bringing in new livestock. I run two DTs a coral QT and several fish QTs. I feel your pain.

 

[CDavmd]

Fingers and toes crossed for you...I am going through something similar but my outcome isn't as good as yours!

Thanks. Hope your situation resolves as well.

 

[CDavmd]

Ugh. Sorry to hear that.

FWIW. Coral dips like coral RX, Bayer, etc. Will not remove encysted tomonts releasing free swimmers looking for a fish to host. They only remove coral pests.

OP this is probably how you introduced something unwanted into your system. It's rather difficult to keep multiple systems clean especially if you are constantly bringing in new livestock. I run two DTs a coral QT and several fish QTs. I feel your pain.

Thanks @HotRocks Definitely difficult. What kills me is I ran my old system since 2006 and others before that. I never quarantined ( or if I did it was a poor job) and never had a breakout of ich, brook or velvet in all those years. Now that I am careful with a new system bang! Irony I guess!

 

[CDavmd]

Morning Update- awoke and went down to see the tank expecting the worse. Fish all present and no external signs. All ate readily and are active. Not seeing as much scratching, in fact only my banana wrasse rubbed against a rock a few times. Interestingly, he would curl up and look at his tail and body area then rub and then look again on both sides. This is my first real foray into wrasses so I've never seen a fish inspect himself like that, fascinating behavior.

The Black Cap is still in the rocks and alive. It did not come out for food. I can see its breathing same as yesterday. The vigil continues....

 

[CDavmd]

Another day and still no fish losses. Everyone is active, feeding, and hunting for pods. No scratching that I have been able to see today. The black cap came out last night. He did a jerky shake and swam into the power head stream then hid in the rocks on a shelf but did not go back into the cave. He is breathing better and looks better. I tried to get him out again but no chance even when using only red light.

From what I can see, he seemed to have tiny specs all over but better than the other night. Too numerous to count and very tiny. Really makes me think velvet??? @HotRocks @Humblefish have you ever seen a fish survive velvet?

In any event, he perched himself on a rock near the bottom this morning and from what I can see on the webcam from work, he has not left that spot. He is alive and looks better.

Seems like I am averting disaster but now comes the anxiety of the "ticking time bomb". Sooner or later this is going to happen again.....and worse most likely. Plus any new fish additions will be at serious risk. I continue to QT all new additions but wondering if I should just do some general cure/Prazi and call it day.....follow Paul's tank method?

 

[HotRocks]

Another day and still no fish losses. Everyone is active, feeding, and hunting for pods. No scratching that I have been able to see today. The black cap came out last night. He did a jerky shake and swam into the power head stream then hid in the rocks on a shelf but did not go back into the cave. He is breathing better and looks better. I tried to get him out again but no chance even when using only red light.

From what I can see, he seemed to have tiny specs all over but better than the other night. Too numerous to count and very tiny. Really makes me think velvet??? @HotRocks @Humblefish have you ever seen a fish survive velvet?

In any event, he perched himself on a rock near the bottom this morning and from what I can see on the webcam from work, he has not left that spot. He is alive and looks better.

Seems like I am averting disaster but now comes the anxiety of the "ticking time bomb". Sooner or later this is going to happen again.....and worse most likely. Plus any new fish additions will be at serious risk. I continue to QT all new additions but wondering if I should just do some general cure/Prazi and call it day.....follow Paul's tank method?

Can you upload pics of the fish when you get a chance?

It does sound like velvet if the spots are too numerous to count.

While it is not the norm, I have seen fish live in velvet for several months before succumbing to the parasite.

 

[CDavmd]

Can you upload pics of the fish when you get a chance?

It does sound like velvet if the spots are too numerous to count.

While it is not the norm, I have seen fish live in velvet for several months before succumbing to the parasite.

Thanks! So this is the best shot I could get. He looks dramatically better. Most of the white specs have disappeared. You can still see some on his body and around his head and eyes. His breathing is normal now and he is staying out on a rock.

All the other fish look fine.

 

[CDavmd]

....Well its been almost a week. No deaths. Still see a couple fish scratch once in a while= mainly in the morning when first venturing out.

The Black Cap came out in the open to feed for the first time all week. He's hanging out and fed heavily. His tail looks a touch frayed and his scales just have an excoriated look depending on the light but without a close look he looks fine, swimming around and active. He's even displaying territorial behaviors with wide open jaws when other fish get too near.

So ia not sure what happened in this tank? Ich, Velvet?? I would have to say Ich given the improvement. Time will tell- clearly my fish have developed some level of resistance. The problem will really be my new additions. I have a Flame and Leopard wrasse in QT slated to finish up in a week. I was also planning on adding a purple tang in a few weeks as my final addition.

I was giving UV some thought but I simply do not have the room for an adequate sized unit. The only one I might be able to fit is the DD 10watt or the AquaUV 15 watt. Basically I can get the flow for 180000 kill level but my turnover would be 1X at best. Probably a waste of money for these purposes.

My other plan will be to once a week use my 5 micron socks and turn up the two WAV's to full while stirring the sand. Other than that, not sure what else I can do. Just no way to catch all the fish and go fallow.

 

[CDavmd]

Well as the story goes.....the black cap recovered some and was out in the open and feeding but just didn't look right. None of the other fish were ill, all active and feeding with the exception of the scratching and jerky head movements at times and worse in the mornings.

As I mentioned before, I knew this is a ticking time bomb. I was able to purchase a trap on Amazon and thought I'd give it a try. Well the dumb Tomini was easy. He went right in to gobble the food and caught. With a few more hours I was able to nab the red fin fairy, melanurus, and flame wrasses. I put everyone in my two QT systems with 1.0ppm of copper power with plans to gently raise it to 2.0 over the next 5 days.

Overnight one of the clowns simply disappeared. He was a very small juvenile and I'm not sure if he went down the overflow of this AIO 14 gallon tank. I can't find him anywhere and the tank is bare bottom with PVC. It also has a fine mesh cover. No idea? This was yesterday.

Last night all were ok in QT- I still have a few fish in the display which I'll get to in a moment.

Well I awoke this morning to the two remaining clowns dying....they had mucous strands all over and one was swimming upside down. I'm thinking Brook- the funny thing is they were fine in the display and not even scratching. I tried ruby red this am but it was too late- both dead within an hour.

Next I find the Tomini that has looked perfectly fine in the display- now dead in the larger 36 gallon QT?!! The Black cap died. I am just stumped.....how could they (except the black cap that was sick) be doing ok in the display and as soon as I move them to QT they die overnight?? I guess they were already sick and the stress of the move tipped them over.

The malanurus has buried himself in the box of sand I put in there for him. He came out to feed this am, then buried himself again. My Flame that was showing some white specs, looks better and the specs are gone. Copper is up to 1.4 this morning.

Honestly this just sucks. I'm not sure if they were becoming immune to what was in the tank or not but the move to QT really accelerated the badness.

So as it stands I still have two fire fish and two antennae goby in the display. I was able to catch the banana wrasse this am.

Not sure how I am going to get them out- they are smart and won't go near the traps I've set. As soon as I approach the tank they dart into the rocks. I'm not going to feed for a few days and see if that will get them to go into the trap with food.

Well as the title said...impending disaster became a disaster....total losses thus far-

3 clowns
1 Black Cap Basslet that I had for 5 years
1 Tomini also 5 years
1 tail spot blend (disappeared sometime in the last 48 hours)

I HATE THIS! ALL THOSE WEEKS/MONTHS quarantining....being so careful and boom all for naught.

 

[CDavmd]

Well not sure anyone out there is following this thread but I’ll close it out now.

Survivors finishing their first week in copper:

Blue flasher
Yellow wrasse
Flame wrasse pair (2)
Melanurus
Randall’s Anthia (1 of 3)
Fire fish (2)
Antenna goby (2)
Red fin fairy

Lost:
Black cap
Tomini
Leopard wrasse
Anthias (2)
Clowns (3)

Finally after using three traps,a large red net, and heavy blue lighting I was able to catch the two antenna goby.

The tank is now fallow.

Signing off.

 

[reefwreak]

Not following but appreciate the anecdote. I'll be posting for a post-mortem shortly. All of my tank have had ich, and I've never set up a QT as the one time I did QT with TTM I ended up losing 3 of 6 fishes who seemed to be doing fine prior. I think the stress of movement can be almost as dangerous as a basic ich infection.

I'm in the opposite boat as you, my fish have ich, they've been fine for years, but adding new fishes, even when healthy and eating, seem like a crapshoot with low odds of survival even with separation in an acclimation box for a few days.

I hope your fishes pull through, and thanks for sharing your experience.