In serious need of some advice regards to cycling!!

[michaelabellz]

I have been cycling my tank for 2 and a half months now and have seen no spike of ammonia (steady .25 for pretty much the entire cycle), just last week my nitrite tested at .25ppm but has stayed steady ever since which is odd as I read nitrites double every 12 hours. I have two black mollies that I added to the tank around 2 and a half weeks ago with the intensions of them to start the ammonia spike and they’ve been doing great. But surprisingly ammonia stayed the same. So that leads to now, I’m wondering what
I should do? And also if my tank would be okay to get some snails?

Background info on tank: 40gal, started with live sand and dry rock. Have been adding Microbactor7 but stopped when I got the mollies. Have a built in refugium. I use the salifert saltwater test kits and always double check when I test. If there’s anything else you would want to know feel free to ask.
Thank you for your help it means so much.

 

[rebels23]

Do you still get a nitrite reading? I gather that is from the mollies you added two weeks ago. Sounds like you have enough of the ammonia to nitrite bacteria already. I wouldn't do anything until the nitrite reading hits zero again. Once it does your tank is cycled with the live stock load you have in it currently

By the way I added snails with a .25 ppm nitrite reading, but I completed my cycle week after that.

 

[michaelabellz]

Do you still get a nitrite reading? I gather that is from the mollies you added two weeks ago. I wouldn't do anything until the nitrite reading hits zero again. Once it does your tank I cycled with the live stock you have in it

Yes I still have a nitrite reading of .25

 

[brandon429]

have you been feeding the mollies daily in this arrangement above

no cycle charts in the history of cycle charts take 2.5 months, that's where we start your cycle decoding

also these factors: wet sand has bac, its like bottle bac from a bag. that alone will transmit by association in water to your inert surfaces in 20 days measured on other threads.


you have way beyond 20 days in place.


nitrite has zero, zero bearing in updated cycle science disregard it (it has great bearing in old cycle rules, you get to choose which you want to apply here)

we only need to know about ammonia control.

so if you've been routinely feeding a 2.5 month system with living fish + bottle bac + wet sand, you meet the time for a common cycling chart which is the rule, we're about all set here.

the fact you have a tester claiming something is off base has not factored in the new updated cycle analysis. Imagine trying to manage reef tank conventions where 500 people must set up 500 instant reefs worth about a million bucks total, all by Friday this week with zero delays and no stalls.


How do they manage that, they dont even get the 30 days from a common cycling chart yet a whole convention pulls it off seamlessly?

They use updated rules.




Your cycle only appears out of whack using old rule sets. Under new rules, you were ready about 30 days into this arrangement, even though the test kit hasn't indicated that. New cycling rules no longer accept all posted test readings as accurate, especially when they go against a cycling chart


false test issues plagued our hobby cycling in decades past, but not anymore.

 

[brandon429]

you can begin reefing.

we want to track here whatever you add to begin as final proof of the cycle being ready, all set.

only your test kit will cause a concern, it wont be the tank, water clarity, fish or clean up crew acting abnormally. add slowly, fish disease is the real risk here not safety in calling the cycle 100% done.

 

[rebels23]

nitrite has zero, zero bearing in updated cycle science disregard it (it has great bearing in old cycle rules, you get to choose which you want to apply here)

I don't think that is true. I agree, according to Randy Holmes, toxicity of nitrite to marine animals is in orders of magnitude lower compared to fresh water fish. So much so it is insignificant in regards to toxicity.

But nitrite can impact a cycle. Excessive nitrite (i.e. past 5 ppm) will stall a cycle

 

[brandon429]

Would it sway you any if I posted a very large work link showing that no cycle has ever stalled


i know how crazy that sounds lol given the PhD videos on YouTube saying nitrite can stall. Work threads are assemblies of hundreds of reefs running a given test...making opposite findings vs the common view.


what you are posting is in line with every known reef rule for sure.


there was also a time twenty yrs ago the rule makers were sure, positive, that due to allelopathy a pico reef could never work unless it was fake plumbed to a larger reservoir of cheat dilution.

 

[brandon429]

this makes for a very good thread on cycling challenges. One reason we quit using old rules is they give unreasonable start time delays that dont match any form of logged nitrification timeframes from any source.

I’ll admit it, my findings are polar opposite of what Dr Tim says about nitrite stalling. I figured that video was coming.

 

[rebels23]

Would it sway you any if I posted a very large work link showing that no cycle has ever stalled


i know how crazy that sounds lol given the PhD videos on YouTube saying nitrite can stall. Work threads are assemblies of hundreds of reefs running a given test...making opposite findings vs the common view.


what you are posting is in line with every known reef rule for sure.


there was also a time twenty yrs ago the rule makers were sure, positive, that due to allelopathy a pico reef could never work unless it was fake plumbed to a larger reservoir of cheat dilution.

My cycle just stalled. At about 2 months with nitrite way over 5 ppm it was going no where. Once I took it down to 2-3 ppm with water changes, it finished the cycle in a week.

Dr. Tim's talks about high Nitrite being a detriment to the cycle here (18:35):

 

[brandon429]

yes thats the top formal cycling video in reefing agreed.

 

[brandon429]

Ok here’s mine

We should use the collective power of the chem forum to prove or deny the possibility of sustained .25 ammonia in reefing

Why does it matter if reef tanks can have stuck cycles? Because when you move homes you don't want to lose animals, cycling science needs precision and predictability in order to protect our tanks. perhaps an emergency setup is needed, no wait time permitted or If you are invited to show...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

Going off the number of calls made, what is the chance the OP cannot handle a fish bioload two months ago


i think anyone claiming to have a better way / bucks the rules needs a high bar of proof. Since I don’t have phd a work thread must suffice. That is a -lot- of claimed stuck cycles shown not stuck.


this one is best:

100% Water Change

So in my previous thread, I had an ammonia issue that was out of hand. As suggested, I did a 100% WC and now i’m wondering when I should start adding fish back. If anyone has suggestions, let me know!

www.reef2reef.com

do the rules say eight ppm ammonia will stall a cycle?
we showed it didn’t.


* my goal is not to offend especially considering the broad spectrum of influential phD’s that read this forum



my goal is to make sense of allowable start dates in reefing, that’s it, not trying to accomp anything else. My claim is she could be reefing two months ago after paying for bottle bac designed for an even quicker start than two months ago.

 

[michaelabellz]

Going off the number of calls made, what is the chance the OP cannot handle a fish bioload two months ago


i think anyone claiming to have a better way / bucks the rules needs a high bar of proof. Since I don’t have phd a work thread must suffice. That is a -lot- of claimed stuck cycles shown not stuck.


this one is best:

100% Water Change

So in my previous thread, I had an ammonia issue that was out of hand. As suggested, I did a 100% WC and now i’m wondering when I should start adding fish back. If anyone has suggestions, let me know!

www.reef2reef.com

do the rules say eight ppm ammonia will stall a cycle?
we showed it didn’t.


* my goal is not to offend especially considering the broad spectrum of influential phD’s that read this forum



my goal is to make sense of allowable start dates in reefing, that’s it, not trying to accomp anything else. My claim is she could be reefing two months ago after paying for bottle bac designed for an even quicker start than two months ago.

Thank you so much for all the help. I 100% understand your point, and your right it makes sense. But I still don’t know as to what I should do now. Do I do the water change now?

 

[brandon429]

EMERGENCY - Help high ammonia and nitrite

Ammonia and nitrite spike I have a 32gallon bio cube it has been cycling for over 2 months I had prefect parameters but I used a reef buffer and my hkd was high so I did a 95% water change big mistake my nitrite is now .25 ammonia .50 and nitrates are 0-5 what should I do I have a baby lion fish...

www.reef2reef.com

we should do like this fella. Take no action on the water. you can reef right now no water change needed. Add some clean up crews or coral frags, whatever your starting plan was. Something reasonable, a light start. with or without mollies in tow won’t matter.

*using meters other than test kits to evaluate if I made a bad call here: if the tank is not cycled this will occur. If this doesn’t occur, it’s cycled, regardless of your non seneye test kit readings- within 24 hours the water will cloud notably and start to actually smell a little bad from the top of the tank. We can smell free ammonia, it’s cat litter ish lol


by the end of the cloudy first day, all life in the tank is dead as not being cycled is the same thing as having no kidneys and any animal in that condition is keeled over by Saturday morning. If this happens post up the progression pics, and I’ll PayPal u the cost of your reasonable starting bioload beyond the two mollies





the last time I did this he went and bought two $70 dollar clownfish heh. Reasonable start might be twenty bucks or thirty total of not the most sensitive reef fish possible lol your call. Yes the fancy lighting percs survived lol but it scared me


the type of test for ammonia you are using divides out to ~ .0xx hundredths ppm nh3 instead of the visual .25 which is total ammonia nitrogen


.0xx hundredths ppm nh3 is safe zone, that is another hidden facet here so I’ll agree to pay up for a lame ump call if needed. You havent blasted the setup with raw liquid ammonia like most, so no initial water change needed here. Can for sure add snails.