In-wall/Behind-wall, 180g peninsula, with a basement fish closet

[New&no clue]

This tank is giving me anxiety. After having another tank for two years, I thought I was ready to take on the challenge of a larger tank. I thought I had learned a lot and had faced many obstacles to create a stunning piece of the reef in my home. But OMG, are you making it hard. I have three major issues right now.

Issue 1: Coral Loss
Since the start of the tank, I have had unexplained coral loss. I had no luck with several SPS of all different kinds. They all seemed fine when entering the tank, started to encrust the rock, and then very quickly died. I thought I needed to wait longer; possibly, the tank wasn't mature enough yet. But then my euphyllias started to go. Of the six hammers I began with, I am down to 1.5 left. My one frogspawn is gone. My torches seemed to be doing okay; just today, I noticed my dragon soul has polyp bailout of one head, and the other doesn't look good. I have tried treating the tank with Cipro. I don't see BJD, and the heads are not melting away. There is no "jelly" on them. One night they are fine, and the following day the head has bailed. I've done an ICP test and only found lower trace elements and slightly high Aluminum.

Issue 2: Aiptasia spreading
It's a story old as time, I started with one, and before I knew it, there were ten, and now I see them everywhere I look. I wanted to try the natural approach with peppermint shrimp; however, I have had no luck. I have ordered them from three different vendors, and still no go. I want to try berghia nudibranch, but I am afraid my wrasse will eat them before they grow and go after the aiptasia. I have heard horror stories of using the chemical products with the population exploding, and a filefish seems like a 50/50 toss on whether it will work or eat other corals.

Issue 3: Serious DINOS
I have had diatom on my sand for about a month. I didn't concern myself too much with it as I figured it was part of the new tank uglies. However, today while counting aiptasia, I noticed that the brown stuff on the sand didn't look as "dusty" anymore. It was more slimy, stringy, and bubbly. While I have heard of people getting Dinos, I don't know that much about it, so I guess this weekend will be dedicated to research. I do know that I want to get my Nitrates and Phosphates levels up. I think I was overly prepared for high nutrients with feeding so frequently for the Anthias that I did too good a job. Step one is to cut the refugium light down to 4 hours. I am also debating stopping water changes, although I was hoping to raise my trace elements through water changes, so maybe I will have to dose these. My next step is to find a microscope to ID if it is Dinos for sure and what strand.

I want to love you tank, why won't you let me love you.

 

[Beau_B]

I feel your pain, sometimes I have more anxiety and distress than enjoyment from it all. Thus far I’m somewhere around 3 for 10 on Acro frags despite other SPS and many LPS being fine. I read an opinion that mixed reef is the most difficult; trying to please everything rather than targeting one set of demands. I see a lot of truth in that view.

You already know the answer to 1 & 3, but I’ll bet you’re starving the LPS. Dinos are a sure sign. Have you considered dosing nitrate directly? Keeps the mess down and allows you to fine tune.

Aiptasia: I have been fortunate to keep out of the DT, primarily from QTing coral, but perhaps also because of my Copperband Butterfly. I know they have a reputation for being difficult but it hasn’t been my experience. Mine came from Vance and he seems to think the source (geographic) of the CBB is really important.

Once a week I contemplate shutting my tank down but I’m still here over 2yrs later, and I think I’ll at least make it to next week.

 

[New&no clue]

I feel your pain, sometimes I have more anxiety and distress than enjoyment from it all. Thus far I’m somewhere around 3 for 10 on Acro frags despite other SPS and many LPS being fine. I read an opinion that mixed reef is the most difficult; trying to please everything rather than targeting one set of demands. I see a lot of truth in that view.

You already know the answer to 1 & 3, but I’ll bet you’re starving the LPS. Dinos are a sure sign. Have you considered dosing nitrate directly? Keeps the mess down and allows you to fine tune.

Aiptasia: I have been fortunate to keep out of the DT, primarily from QTing coral, but perhaps also because of my Copperband Butterfly. I know they have a reputation for being difficult but it hasn’t been my experience. Mine came from Vance and he seems to think the source (geographic) of the CBB is really important.

Once a week I contemplate shutting my tank down but I’m still here over 2yrs later, and I think I’ll at least make it to next week.

These tanks are really a labor of love. And I definitely think that starting a tank is hard to get everything stabilized and inline.

I agree 100% that the LPS haven't had enough nutrients in the water. You would think with 20+ fish, 15+ shrimp, crabs, snails, feeding 4x a day, that wouldn't be a problem, but as I said, I think I over exported. Before I start dosing anything, I want to try cutting down how I export. I'm going to shorten my light on the refugium, stop using phosguard/GFO products, and I may even limit the amount of time my skimmer is running.

I hadn't thought about a CBB; I may look into those. Honestly, I've never been to Vances. I have tried to go several times, but I just haven't been able to work out a good time when he is open. But maybe this is my motivation to get down there.

You should start a build thread too. That way, I can check in each week and see if you're still going.

 

[New&no clue]

I spent the weekend researching Dinos and the different types and the various suggestions to get rid of them. To start the process, I bought a microscope on Amazon to confirm it was dinos and to identify which strand it was. First, I had to pry it away from my kids and husband, who had already started to play with it when I came home. Based on its shape and movement, I believe I have large cell amphidinium, but if someone thinks differently, please correct me.

Reading through the old Dino thread and then the newer Amphidinium Dino thread, it would appear that this strand does not go into the water column, so UV does not work. This stand is also the least toxic of the different types, which is a piece of mind for my livestock. Of course, there are tons of different ideas to fix any issue in a tank. And while it works for some, nothing seems to work for all. However, it appears with all dino strands that stable parameters and detectable nutrients are the first steps. The suggested range is Nitrates between 5-10 and phosphates at 0.1-0.15. The next step is to outcompete them. As this strand starts in the sand, outcompeting them with Diatoms seems to be leading the pack. You need to increase your silicate to increase a tank's diatom, so dosing silicate is recommended. This is where I plan to start. Hopefully, I will see some improvement.

 

[boacvh]

I spent the weekend researching Dinos and the different types and the various suggestions to get rid of them. To start the process, I bought a microscope on Amazon to confirm it was dinos and to identify which strand it was. First, I had to pry it away from my kids and husband, who had already started to play with it when I came home. Based on its shape and movement, I believe I have large cell amphidinium, but if someone thinks differently, please correct me.

Reading through the old Dino thread and then the newer Amphidinium Dino thread, it would appear that this strand does not go into the water column, so UV does not work. This stand is also the least toxic of the different types, which is a piece of mind for my livestock. Of course, there are tons of different ideas to fix any issue in a tank. And while it works for some, nothing seems to work for all. However, it appears with all dino strands that stable parameters and detectable nutrients are the first steps. The suggested range is Nitrates between 5-10 and phosphates at 0.1-0.15. The next step is to outcompete them. As this strand starts in the sand, outcompeting them with Diatoms seems to be leading the pack. You need to increase your silicate to increase a tank's diatom, so dosing silicate is recommended. This is where I plan to start. Hopefully, I will see some improvement.

Good plan. That's how I beat LC Amphidinum on mine. I only dosed silicates and made sure I had detectable nutrients. Worst case scenario is it doesn't work and you just get some diatoms and sponges. That's why I decided to try that out first before all the more aggressive measures (like dosing bleach, etc) in the dino thread.
Just be aware it gets worst before it gets better. Took some weeks to see any progress. Good luck, hope you beat them!
@taricha helped me with the ID so pinging him here for you, maybe he can help confirm the ID

 

[New&no clue]

I posted my picture and video in several dino threads, and some suggested it was Prorocentrum. I sent a PM to Taricha, who also was leaning toward prorocentrum. So scrap all the research on amphidinium and redirect my attention. It seems like now the best course of action is a UV sterilizer and a black-out period. One problem I have, and it may sound counterintuitive, is the wealth of knowledge and experience. When trying to figure out what size UV sterilizer I need, there are hundreds of different opinions. Similarly with what flow rate is required to "sterilize" dinos. Some say high, and some say low. This part of the hobby gets very overwhelming for me.

 

[New&no clue]

Taking a break from the Dino battle to force my children to dress up in a family costume.

HAPPY HALLOWEEN

 

[New&no clue]

I had a master plan for my dino issue. I decided on this UV Sterilizer and this pump I had from my old tank lying around.

Lifegard Aquatics Pro-MAX 3'' Body 90W Amalgam High Output UV Sterilizer

The Lifegard Aquatics Pro-MAX 3' Body 90W Amalgam High Output UV Sterilizer features a patent-pending, flow-through design with less restrictive than usual angled inlet and outlet ports requiring less plumbing.

www.marineandreef.com

eFlux Aquarium DC Flow Pump with Flow Control 1050 GPH

A compact solution for a quiet yet powerful return pump. Featuring a sealed DC motor and magnetic drive design, eFlux DC pumps provide up to 65% energy savings and are completely controllable. Running virtually silent and transferring minimal heat, use inline or submersible in marine reefs or...

current-usa.com

I then had to plan how to plumb it. The best is directly into my return line. However, I was concerned that not being an expert plumber, or even a novice plumber, I would create more issues cutting into my current working system. And if I had problems and it took some time to fix, I was cutting off the filtration to the tank that was already struggling. I decided instead to plumb it externally. As I have two sumps, I thought I could put the pump in one sump and the return in the other, so I wasn't just pulling the same sterilized water again and again. Water would enter both sumps from the drain line; I would close the return line on the first sump and instead run the water from the first sump through the UV and into the second sump for it all to go up the return line.

Current flow pattern

New UV flow pattern

The problem is my pump pulls out more water than what is coming in the drain line. So I need a smaller pump to do it the way it currently is. However, I'm now concerned with the amount of water coming through my drain and return line. I am also concerned if I can get enough flow for the UV to be affective.

 

[New&no clue]

Long post ahead. Short version, with the help of float switches and a child's toilet cover, I made a good dent in the dino and bought some new frags to test the water.

I bought a new pump for the UV sterilizer.

VarioS-2 Controllable DC Pump (792 GPH)

Reef Octopus VarioS DC pumps give you enhanced performance and precise control of flow through your aquarium's reactors, sump, or closed-loop system. With complete control through the VarioS Controller, you can control the flow of the pump, enter feed modes (15 or 60 minutes), add a safety float...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

This one is much more controllable, so I was hoping to get it low enough to work with the backwood plumbing I have set up. I shut the drain line into my mechanical filtration sump, so all water runs into my refugium sump. Then I closed the return line in the refugium sump, so all water returning to the DT was from the mechanical sump. I put the UV pump in the return sections of the refugium sump and the UV drain into the mechanical sump. So, in a nutshell, all water flows into the refugium, gets pumped into the UV, dumps into the mechanical sump, and then returns to the DT.

How many things can go wrong with this setup? Probably too many to count. Here are some I thought of;

1. The only drain line gets clogged, and the sumps empty into the DT.
2. The UV pump stops working, and the water from the DT drains only into one sump. Plus no water running through the UV, so the UV overheats.
3. The return pump pulls faster than the UV pump and burns out.
4. The UV pump pulls faster than the drain line and burns out.
5. The sumps don't stay level, and the ATO overfills.

My biggest fear was flooding of some nature, either in the DT or in the sump. So I tested both scenarios. First, I shut the return lines and one drain line and let all the water run into the refugium to see if it would overflow. It did not, so I knew I wouldn't flood the sump if that return line got clogged. Next, I closed both drain lines and pumped all the water from the sumps into the DT to see if that would overflow. It didn't, so I knew I wouldn't flood the DT if the drain were clogged. The next worry was having the return chambers run dry on either sump and burn out the return pumps. Both pumps are reef octopus's which comes with float switched. I turned them upside down and put one in each return chamber. If the water dropped too low, the switch would activate and turn off the pump.

The last thing I was worried about was the ATO overfilling. I thought I could use the float switch again upside down. I have the tunze ATO, which has a senor and a float switch. The sensor tells the pump when to turn on, and the float switch is a backup to prevent overfilling. I tried flipping the switch upside down and putting it almost even with the sensor. That way, if the water level drops and the pumps turn off, the ATO won't just fill it back up again. Unfortunately, this didn't work. Maybe if I tinkered with it some more, I could get it, but I am just manually doing top-offs for now.

Now that I had the UV ready, I decided to do a total blackout for two days.

Each night I vacuumed the sand and blasted the rocks to get the dino into the water column. I know during a Dino Battle, you're not supposed to do a water change. Most will vacuum the sand into their filters socks in the sump. This way, collecting all the dino in the sock and the water stays in the tank. As my sump is in the basement, I couldn't feasibly do this. I bought a large filter sock on amazon and used an old toilet seat cover from potty training, my kids. The filter sock fits in the cover, which I put over a bucket. I vacuumed the water with my siphon tube going into the filter sock in the bucket. Each time I filled the bucket, I dumped it back in.

Today I turned the lights back on, and it looks... cleaner. Still some areas, but the rocks look much better, and the sand is getting there. I think I will continue to vacuum the sand a couple more times to see if I can get it all cleared up. I am also watching Nitrates and Phosphates closely. While I think it might be nice to have the UV running 24/7, with the current setup, it's not practical. I will leave it going for at least a week and then switch it off and see how it looks. Maybe I will get brave enough to plumb it directly into my return. But for right now, I'm still not confident in that.

In other news, there was a local frag swap here that I went to this weekend. I got a couple of new corals to add to the collection. I got a couple of SPS to see if the tank could handle them. Probably not the best time to be testing out new corals, but I wanted to support some local reefers, and I can't say no to a good deal.

Next weekend's task is to start to clean up the graveyard of skeletons all around the place; torches, hammers, and SPS bones everywhere. Time pull them out and start fresh.

 

[boacvh]

Long post ahead. Short version, with the help of float switches and a child's toilet cover, I made a good dent in the dino and bought some new frags to test the water.

I bought a new pump for the UV sterilizer.

VarioS-2 Controllable DC Pump (792 GPH)

Reef Octopus VarioS DC pumps give you enhanced performance and precise control of flow through your aquarium's reactors, sump, or closed-loop system. With complete control through the VarioS Controller, you can control the flow of the pump, enter feed modes (15 or 60 minutes), add a safety float...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

This one is much more controllable, so I was hoping to get it low enough to work with the backwood plumbing I have set up. I shut the drain line into my mechanical filtration sump, so all water runs into my refugium sump. Then I closed the return line in the refugium sump, so all water returning to the DT was from the mechanical sump. I put the UV pump in the return sections of the refugium sump and the UV drain into the mechanical sump. So, in a nutshell, all water flows into the refugium, gets pumped into the UV, dumps into the mechanical sump, and then returns to the DT.

How many things can go wrong with this setup? Probably too many to count. Here are some I thought of;

1. The only drain line gets clogged, and the sumps empty into the DT.
2. The UV pump stops working, and the water from the DT drains only into one sump. Plus no water running through the UV, so the UV overheats.
3. The return pump pulls faster than the UV pump and burns out.
4. The UV pump pulls faster than the drain line and burns out.
5. The sumps don't stay level, and the ATO overfills.

My biggest fear was flooding of some nature, either in the DT or in the sump. So I tested both scenarios. First, I shut the return lines and one drain line and let all the water run into the refugium to see if it would overflow. It did not, so I knew I wouldn't flood the sump if that return line got clogged. Next, I closed both drain lines and pumped all the water from the sumps into the DT to see if that would overflow. It didn't, so I knew I wouldn't flood the DT if the drain were clogged. The next worry was having the return chambers run dry on either sump and burn out the return pumps. Both pumps are reef octopus's which comes with float switched. I turned them upside down and put one in each return chamber. If the water dropped too low, the switch would activate and turn off the pump.

The last thing I was worried about was the ATO overfilling. I thought I could use the float switch again upside down. I have the tunze ATO, which has a senor and a float switch. The sensor tells the pump when to turn on, and the float switch is a backup to prevent overfilling. I tried flipping the switch upside down and putting it almost even with the sensor. That way, if the water level drops and the pumps turn off, the ATO won't just fill it back up again. Unfortunately, this didn't work. Maybe if I tinkered with it some more, I could get it, but I am just manually doing top-offs for now.

Now that I had the UV ready, I decided to do a total blackout for two days.

Each night I vacuumed the sand and blasted the rocks to get the dino into the water column. I know during a Dino Battle, you're not supposed to do a water change. Most will vacuum the sand into their filters socks in the sump. This way, collecting all the dino in the sock and the water stays in the tank. As my sump is in the basement, I couldn't feasibly do this. I bought a large filter sock on amazon and used an old toilet seat cover from potty training, my kids. The filter sock fits in the cover, which I put over a bucket. I vacuumed the water with my siphon tube going into the filter sock in the bucket. Each time I filled the bucket, I dumped it back in.

Today I turned the lights back on, and it looks... cleaner. Still some areas, but the rocks look much better, and the sand is getting there. I think I will continue to vacuum the sand a couple more times to see if I can get it all cleared up. I am also watching Nitrates and Phosphates closely. While I think it might be nice to have the UV running 24/7, with the current setup, it's not practical. I will leave it going for at least a week and then switch it off and see how it looks. Maybe I will get brave enough to plumb it directly into my return. But for right now, I'm still not confident in that.

In other news, there was a local frag swap here that I went to this weekend. I got a couple of new corals to add to the collection. I got a couple of SPS to see if the tank could handle them. Probably not the best time to be testing out new corals, but I wanted to support some local reefers, and I can't say no to a good deal.

Next weekend's task is to start to clean up the graveyard of skeletons all around the place; torches, hammers, and SPS bones everywhere. Time pull them out and start fresh.

Awesome update and that pic with the potty trainer is GOLD! Giant Blue-dino-eating-monster-trap!

 

[New&no clue]

Hello Reefing friends, and by that, I mean the 5 to possibly 10 (overly optimistic) people who read this... Welcome Back!

It has been a while since I last updated my build. And not because nothing has been going on. I am in the midst of a doom spiral! I mean, everything is "fine" except nothing is right. It all started when I messed with the plumbing to add a UV. I don't do plumbing... this is why I paid a nice man to come to do this tank's plumbing for me because, and let me just reiterate this again, I don't do plumbing! I don't know why I tried to attempt this myself; maybe I was hopped up on the Halloween candy I'd stolen from my kids, but bad decisions were made, and it just all went downhill from there.

I changed the water flow in the sumps to incorporate the UV. Once I did this, I could never get the water level in the sump to be consistent, which means I couldn't use my ATO. It would either overfill or underfill. I stopped using it and just did manual top-offs, thinking once Dinos cleared up, I could remove the UV, and everything would go back to normal.

Dinos is gone; YAY! I removed the pump for the UV and crossed my fingers that it would all go back to normal. That did not happen. Since Thanksgiving, I have spent almost every night tinkering with the amount of flow in this tank, trying to make my two sumps balance so I can use my ATO again. I CANNOT DO IT!

I am at my wit's end, I am frustrated and tired, and in a moment of pure exhaustion and... probably hopped up on Christmas cookies, I decided to break the two sumps apart and have them run as two individual sumps. Each with a drain line and a return pump. Dear God, what have I gotten myself into? Who in their right mind says, "I can't do plumbing... I tried and messed it up... so the best way to fix it is with, you guessed it, more plumbing projects."

So to the 5 or overly optimistic 10 of you out there, please send prayers, good thoughts, and karmic glitter bombs my way as my phone has just dinged saying my lowes order is ready to be picked up and my new return pump arrives this weekend.

 

[fishguy242]

Knock on wood... nothing leaked, steps 1&2 to plumber...
you got this...
if not ,ask away...

 

[Beau_B]

Oh boy. That could spell trouble if one pump stops it will almost certainly flood, won’t it?

Maybe before you start cutting you could go over the layout again… seems drastic to re-do something that *was* functioning to your desires.

 

[AllanPritchard]

Glad your Dinos are sorted I hear they are awful things to remove. Good luck with the plumbing project. Take your time , get a list of all the bits you will need and then double it. Measure twice cut once, then remeasure and cut at least twice more Send some photos if you need any advice.

 

[Beau_B]

A quick look back at the plumbing, I hope the drain valves are open under the tank, so other than friction, the flow is the same into both sumps.

Then the return chambers are drilled and tee’d but the short run has a ball-valve to prevent the pump from pulling higher flow from that said… correct?

Firstly, that shouldn’t be a ball valve as they are nearly impossible it restrict flow accurately and consistently. Step one before tearing everything apart and re-designing would be to simply swap that out for a gate valve. That would make balancing the flow from the twin sumps 10x easier.

 

[AllanPritchard]

I am curious how this will work. As @Beau_B mentioned this could cause problems if one pump stops and the other is still going as the sump with the non working pump would just keep filling and overflowing while the other pump and sump keeps pumping up to the display which returns to both the sumps. You would need some form high water cut out switch (and alarm). I would maybe go with @Beau_B advice and try and work out why it is no longer working as it should. The pump you have on order can always be used as a dual return from the sump as redundancy.

 

[New&no clue]

My son woke up in the middle of the night from a nightmare. After reassuring him we don't own sled dogs, and they certainly are not lost in Alaska, he was able to fall back asleep. Me, not so much. So I decided to come on here and read some threads. Of course, I read these replies, and panic and anxiety ensued.

So friends, let's go through this together before I just meltdown.

Oh boy. That could spell trouble if one pump stops it will almost certainly flood, won’t it?

Maybe before you start cutting you could go over the layout again… seems drastic to re-do something that *was* functioning to your desires.

Here is the problem when I changed the flow of the tank, I wanted all the water to go into the refugium sump, pump to the mechanical sump, return to the tank. To accomplish that, I dumbly cut the drainpipe to make it shorter, ensuring that all water flowed down it. That didn't work, so instead, I added a coupling to the other drain line to make it taller and stick out of the water. Now that I want to go back to normal, my two drain pipes are not the same height as before. I thought I could adjust in the sump with the valve... but obviously, ball valves are the worst. So I can't just go back to something that was working because I changed it. Also, side note, I tested it, and I can run all my water through one drain and one return pump without overflowing.

A quick look back at the plumbing, I hope the drain valves are open under the tank, so other than friction, the flow is the same into both sumps.

Then the return chambers are drilled and tee’d but the short run has a ball-valve to prevent the pump from pulling higher flow from that said… correct?

Firstly, that shouldn’t be a ball valve as they are nearly impossible it restrict flow accurately and consistently. Step one before tearing everything apart and re-designing would be to simply swap that out for a gate valve. That would make balancing the flow from the twin sumps 10x easier.

There are no valves on the drain lines, only on the returns... weird? You've convinced me to try a ball valve first; however, would you recommend adding ball valves to the drain lines as well, seeing as the drain lines are not the same length?

 

[fishguy242]

My son woke up in the middle of the night from a nightmare. After reassuring him we don't own sled dogs, and they certainly are not lost in Alaska, he was able to fall back asleep. Me, not so much. So I decided to come on here and read some threads. Of course, I read these replies, and panic and anxiety ensued.

So friends, let's go through this together before I just meltdown.




Here is the problem when I changed the flow of the tank, I wanted all the water to go into the refugium sump, pump to the mechanical sump, return to the tank. To accomplish that, I dumbly cut the drainpipe to make it shorter, ensuring that all water flowed down it. That didn't work, so instead, I added a coupling to the other drain line to make it taller and stick out of the water. Now that I want to go back to normal, my two drain pipes are not the same height as before. I thought I could adjust in the sump with the valve... but obviously, ball valves are the worst. So I can't just go back to something that was working because I changed it. Also, side note, I tested it, and I can run all my water through one drain and one return pump without overflowing.



There are no valves on the drain lines, only on the returns... weird? You've convinced me to try a ball valve first; however, would you recommend adding ball valves to the drain lines as well, seeing as the drain lines are not the same length?

good morning, i have used ball on returns,can you post some pics ?

 

[New&no clue]

good morning, i have used ball on returns,can you post some pics ?

Here is the plumbing under the tank. The two middle lines are drains.

 

[fishguy242]

can you get pics of ,where cut ?
pipe going into sumps ?
anything else ,you think needs addressing...