In which, Dave starts an argument over his tank idea.

[Dave_1972]

I'm starting to wrap my mind around what I would like to build. I am still very far out from doing anything - I have a couple of house projects to do first. I have a couple of issues in my house design working against me - not the least of which being that the best location in my house for a large aquarium is the corner of my living room furthest from any water supply. So there definitely won't be any automated water changes in my future. But that is all discussion for a later date - right now I am trying to decide on what form my tank should take.

I'd like to be as close to 180g (or over 180g) as I can be. And as long a tank as I can build to avoid future house calls from the tang police. My issue is that in this corner my limitations are 50-7/8" long by 39-7/8" wide. So I have settled in on building my stand at something like 50" long by 36" wide. The question i need to settle now is - internal or external overflow/return? If I go external and leave myself a minimum of 5" of space on the outside of the tank - I am looking at a maximum of 181g and that is going 45"long x 31" wide x 30" tall. I'm not loving that 30" tall after reading a lot of information here on R2R. Especially since I want to build a tall stand at maybe 36" tall.

Here is my crappy powerpoint (clearly not accurate to scale) of what that would look like:

Ignore the stuff about 2" trim that is how far it sticks out past the window. The problems here are actually in the stand - I want to take advantage of all that space underneath and really don't like the idea of having vertical braces under the back wall of the aquarium that break up the space under the stand. I am going to build an 80/20 stand so maybe I can go thick enough that it bears that load. But I got to thinking about using the entire 50' long by 36" wide space for the aquarium with internal overflows and returns. (I'm assuming returns can be boxed and run internal to the tank like an overflow?). If I did that I could potentially build a 200+ gallon tank (minus what I lose to overflow/return areas) with a wide open stand underneath and a much more reasonable height for the tank. Here is another crappy powerpoint of what that could look like:

-Ignore the comments about ATO reservoir and dry area that is for future arguments. In this scenario I really like 28" tall build. And I think I could get over the internal space loss as I could do somethings to hide that and I have a pretty wide tank to start with. I intend to rip off @Lasse pretty shamelessly for a lot of what I want to do so I could just let mother nature hide those for me (eventually). One thing that jumps out at me is that at 36" wide that back corner could be a real pain to get to if something happened.

What do you fine folks think? Pros? Cons? Better ideas?

-also, when I get closer to doing things I'll get CAD.

-Dave

 

[Devaji]

yeah if your going with a 36" tall stand dont go 30" high . go wider if you can. I would do the 50x 40x24
or go peninsula or large cube so you can walk around the tank and have 3 viewing sides.

 

[ScottB]

Dave I think it great that you are plotting out different ideas very early on, and trying them out on the community. I find that feedback here helps me consider the trade-offs.
So here are a few opinions:

Personally I don't enjoy working on tanks with limited access. They don't end up looking/living/working as well as tanks that are easier to work on. At the very least, that back corner just ain't gonna get much love and attention. If a frag or colony loses grip (because I could reach it very well when gluing) then it is gone forever.

If you are going to place the tank flush with the wall, then blackout that glass. Also, consider a non-sheetrock surface like a laminate. Actually, it cannot be flush due to power cords and such but still.

I like @Devaji suggestion of peninsula. Infinitely easier to work on -- and three sides to admire.

 

[Dave_1972]

Thanks for all the feedback folks.

I'd love to do peninsula but I don't think I'm in a good situation - the limiting factor here is that beyond that trim you see at the edges of the stand are large five foot windows and I don't want to block a window. Another option might be to extend the length to 50" and keep the width at 30" with 6" behind the tank for overflow, returns, etc. But then I'm still trying to decide if I need a support in the stand underneath the back wall of the tank - which could impact my sump and equipment layout. And I probably still have issues getting to that return in the back corner which would then be external.

I'm really tying open up the stand for equipment - I'd like to have room for a sump with a macroalgae refugium (possibly with a DSB beneath the algae - something like what @Lasse has done) and also a cryptic zone refugium. And I live in Central Arkansas - we get a week of nice weather in the Spring (it rains) and Fall (it rains again) and the rest of the year it is like living on the surface of the sun during a monsoon. Lot's of heat and humidity. So I have a bad feeling I will end up needing a chiller and I'm trying to plan the empty space needed for that (and for ATO reservoir and dosing bottles) under the stand.

Going fully up against the wall might not be terrible - I am thinking of covering the sheet rock with laminate from floor to the bracket the lights will hang from. Since I am covering it anyway I think I could open the sheet rock up and install a couple of PVC pipes in the wall with 45's at top and bottom to pass wiring through.

As to that back corner - I might try to create a cave or something in the back corner with the intent of leaving it alone after installation.

Here is the 50"x30" idea - but I still think I am leaning towards the 50"x36".

 

[Dave_1972]

Playing with the 50x36 idea... If the overflow moved to the short edge (36 inch) of the tank it should be easier to deal with in case of a problem. With the returns out at the outer edges of the tank in case they need to be accessed.

There is a thread somewhere on here where they did a fantastic job concealing internal overflows by making it look like a sunken column under water. I might shamelessly rip off that idea (gotta find that thread again) and maybe tie it in to a corner structure like a cave of some kind.

Like this:

 

[ScottB]

There is a thread somewhere on here where they did a fantastic job concealing internal overflows by making it look like a sunken column under water. I might shamelessly rip off that idea (gotta find that thread again) and maybe tie it in to a corner structure like a cave of some kind.

Edit that for ya:
"I will borrow upon this idea (with credit to the creator); I will then improve upon it with proper analytical/photographical documentation and loan this out to others in this fine community."

Better?

 

[Devaji]

show us the room if you can hard to tell from just talking about it.
go get some PVC and mock out the tank dems. you are thinking about. I think that really help put it in to prospective.

 

[Lasse]

One of the secrets with my construction is that I have a nearly coast to coast overflow but you will not see it

​

I have place on more rock work on this back wall with both openings i the bottom and openings in the surface. I have no good picture of it bot here is the other rockwork

This construct allows both surface water and bottom water pass out from the aquarium.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Dave_1972]

@Devaji - we are about to embark on a remodel of the living room that will free up the corner where I want to build this - getting a picture right now might not be that helpful.

@ScottB - yep, better.

@Lasse - am I understanding correctly that you have water leaving the display tank at the top via the overflow and the bottom of the tank on the overflow wall? Below the back wall rock piece?

Also, revisiting the internal overflow/return design that I am starting to lean towards. Here is my latest idea on that:

In this scenario - the vertical stand columns (80/20 aluminum) are all 2x2 except on the wall edges of the tank where they would be 2x4 so that they support under the tank edge. Still impacts me some on how much design freedom I have for sump and equipment in the stand. The built-in cave area may turn out to be nice as i have something special in mind for that - trying to take advantage of the most difficult area to reach in the tank. I might also rework the design so that the overflow is across that entire short side - more like @Lasse design. Would 2 inches on the wall side be enough for wires, magnets, etc?

I also favor the slightly deeper 28 inch tank - I'm thinking 28 inches won't be a nightmare to deal with. Hopefully I can just get away with buying a couple of tools to work in a deeper tank.

In that graphic the red boxes are the stand columns beneath the tank. I can tell by looking that they are not quite right - so when i get this in CAD it will start to reveal more for me - waiting to do CAD on my new home PC to show up next week. Probably get some dirty looks if I install CAD on my work laptop.

One last issue here is that any tank wider than 32 inches can't come in my door unless I rotate it onto it's side. I'm thinking that won't be terrible so long as I properly brace and support the tank internally before we move it in.

One last question - I had seen an older thread on the forum where the OP did a custom PVC internal return coated in DIY live rock designed to look like a fluted column up against one side of the tank. But I neglected to hit watch on that thread - and now I can't find it again. Does anyone know which thread I am thinking of?

-thanks again for all the feedback -
Dave

 

[Lasse]

am I understanding correctly that you have water leaving the display tank at the top via the overflow and the bottom of the tank on the overflow wall? Below the back wall rock piece?

You maybe understand better with this drawing. The large drawing is the tank seen from the top. The rockformation end below the DT:s surface in the corners but reach over the surface in the middle. In some places in the middle . the rock do not reach the bottom. This create a surface stream in the corners and a bottom stream in the middle

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Dave_1972]

@Lasse

Waited awhile to reply on this as I was thinking it over and looking at other ideas on what I want to do. But I want to make certain I understand correctly how this works. So, please excuse if I am a bit slow here.

But, just looking at the center portion of your back wall (not the corner returns) is this side view basically what you have set up?

If that is correct - what is the relationship of the display tank sand bed to that rear rock wall? Is the wall above the sand like the above diagram?

Or sitting on the sand so water pulls through the sand?

Or is the sand piled up against the rear wall with the water pulling through it like this:

I greatly appreciate you helping me to understand what you have setup here. Right now I think I will have a Deep Sand Bed/Macroalgae Refugium in my sump setup similar to what you have. But I like this rear wall idea if it is helping to keep the display tank sand surface cleaner.

-thanks,
Dave

 

[Lasse]

The first picture shows the principles of my setup. In this picture (below) have I add the reverse flow

Sincerely Lasse