*INFESTED* Zoa Eating Nudi's, the Battle Begins

[JakeLikesReefs]

What an awesome informative thread! Thanks!

 

[Fish Werx]

I have. There's a local melanarus wrasse available, but I'm sure it'll turn on my snails. I have added a coral banded shrimp, works for keeping my amphipods in check, testing to see if it does much for the nudis. Can't say I really want a coris wrasse so I'd rather try treatment first.

Other options?

Yes, he will eat your snails....... LOL!

 

[Fish Werx]

I don't think pox wipe off, so probably just a small piece of something that landed on them or possibly an egg considering your current adventure haha.

From my experience, I agree. They dont wipe off. The little blister like protuberances are in the flesh and will not just fall off. A couple shots of Furan 2 and they will disappear and you will be right as rain! Dont ask me how I know! Hahaha!

 

[danis74]

Hey guys I'm a newbie to salt aquarium just wondering do zoas release paly toxin when eaten by nudi's

 

[CodyRVA]

Hey guys I'm a newbie to salt aquarium just wondering do zoas release paly toxin when eaten by nudi's

They each have varying levels of toxicity; I can't confirm or deny if the nudis cause this reaction or not. From my research the larger issue is the toxin released from the nudi upon death. A great question would be, do the nudis obtain this toxin from their diet or is it naturally occurring.

I will say they don't tend to eat very fast. They seem to grow in number faster than they consume food if that makes sense. Naturally when the ratios tip and you have an extensive number of nudis they will consume a significant number of zoas which calls into question the threat of the paly toxin. Regardless, if you have that many nudis you have to consider the toxicity of the nudis deaths as equally important.

 

[CodyRVA]

Update:

Haven't been able to do any more tests due to lack of test subjects! I have found 2 nudis over the past few days, but ended up destroying them in the process of removal.

I found one tiny one which scares me bc I'm inclined to think more eggs hatched. I also found what I'll call a medium sized one. Interesting note about this medium sized nudi is it was on a rock I have yet to find nudis on before.

At this point the RODI/Revive dips are still the safest and most effective solutions.

More to come...

 

[danis74]

They each have varying levels of toxicity; I can't confirm or deny if the nudis cause this reaction or not. From my research the larger issue is the toxin released from the nudi upon death. A great question would be, do the nudis obtain this toxin from their diet or is it naturally occurring.

I will say they don't tend to eat very fast. They seem to grow in number faster than they consume food if that makes sense. Naturally when the ratios tip and you have an extensive number of nudis they will consume a significant number of zoas which calls into question the threat of the paly toxin. Regardless, if you have that many nudis you have to consider the toxicity of the nudis deaths as equally important.

Thanks for the reply and a very interesting reply at that ....thanks again[emoji2]

 

[Wiz]

Awesome thread. Thanks. I think about this sort of testing alot. But never find time. People like you @CodyRVA are very helpful.

 

[CodyRVA]

Awesome thread. Thanks. I think about this sort of testing alot. But never find time. People like you @CodyRVA are very helpful.

Happy to help!

 

[CodyRVA]

Catch 22, I'd be sad if I ran out of test subjects as I wanted to perform more tests; but would obviously be happy to be nudi free. Well...

And my guess is eggs? 3 "clutches" of them...

So, this frag was glued to the main rock where I found the first mammoth of a nudi. It's been two weeks since then and I dipped and moved all of those frags up onto a frag rack in hopes of keeping them out of reach.

Theory 1: the eggs were already on the frag, got over looked, and in that case dipping did nothing.

Theory 2: the nudis I found tonight may be responsible for the new eggs. If that's the case, then you could say nudis do not have to be very large or mature to reproduce. This would also indicate the nudis moved across a plethora of food up the tank and targeted that specific frag. I'm leaning towards theory 1.

I did some more tests for fun, no Bayer yet, I wasn't expecting to find anymore...

Probably pointless dip tests, but why not. As you can expect the alcohol acted quickly; the nudi didn't die after 1 teaspoon per 1 ounce of tank water, but was definitely feeling it. [emoji12]

After adding an additional teaspoon of alcohol the nudi was toast within minutes.

The witch hazel had a similar affect, just not as fast. 1 teaspoon didn't kill or have much of an affect at all on the nudi after 5 minutes; but doubling the dose did kill it rather quickly.

Again, I doubt I would dose frags in either solution, but what the heck.

I saved the eggs and left them on that frag. I'm going to monitor them and see how long they take to hatch and utilize them on further testing. I already have another frag of those zoas so no biggy.

Stay tuned! [emoji41]

 

[Lionfish Lair]

This is a great thread, Cody. I'm going to link to this in the guide.

 

[CodyRVA]

This is a great thread, Cody. I'm going to link to this in the guide.

Thanks! Hope it helps someone!

 

[CodyRVA]

And I was afraid of running out of test subjects... ha!

Vinegar test proved to be as lethal as RODI. 1 teaspoon in 1 ounce of water, very potent, but it killed them all in about 5 minutes. The common challenge is the nudis releasing toxins. I've noticed with some dips the nudis break down, others doesn't cause the same reaction; not sure if this has any affect on the release of toxins or not...

Also, update on the eggs, they're definitely growing in size. More updates to come.

 

[CodyRVA]

Update: found about a dozen more tonight, all about the same "medium" size. No testing, getting bayer this weekend.

Side note, for as bad of a reputation as these guys have, honestly earned, they don't seem to cause much damage. As long as you keep up with manual removal and an eye out for eggs, they're not going to mow down your zoas. As many as I'm finding, my zoas actually look pretty good. Just my two cents...

 

[LbulletM]

At least they're a lot less creepy than zoa spiders. I haven't seen any calls for fire yet for the nudis.

 

[najer]

Great thread, England here, I use Dettol, a kitchen disinfectant, gets them every time, the eggs are the issue.

 

[CodyRVA]

Great thread, England here, I use Dettol, a kitchen disinfectant, gets them every time, the eggs are the issue.

I was considering using cleaning agents. I still might try it, no reason not to try. Eggs definitely seem to be the issue; how do you kill them without killing your rock/coral.

 

[revhtree]

Amazing thread!

 

[Derek Meline]

I tell ya, nudi's are a pain in the back side to eradicate. I have always sourced my Zoa's from locals and always just drop in corals from them if they have a good rep.

Well, apparently one of their reputation is faulty. I too fit infested and I have 150+ species of Zoa's and Pally's in my display. First sight, I about cried!!! After much research, this is the course I took.

1st: Manual removal of nudi and eggs from every rock or frag plug with Zoa'sand Paly's. Man I tell you what, those little ******* must have been in there a while because I was literally picking nudis out in multiples of 10 and at least 3 egg sacks per zoa I found invested.

2nd: Dipped the entire frag or rock in peroxide solution. Got quite a few little brown jerks off of the rocks. Then went to saltwater rinse (saved up 50 gallons from water changes) using a small pump and hose to literally rinse the rock/plug. Then Bayer dip, followed by another rinse. Larger rocks went back into the tank, smaller rocks and frags were dipped in Furan2 with water temp elevated to 82-83° then placed back into the tank.

3rd: Ran 4 FWE treatments over the course of 16 days. Treat one day, let the tank rest for 3. I did 4, 4 day cycles. Before treatment, carbon was removed or stopped. After treatment, filter socks were replaced and carbon was either started again or replaced.

4th: I sat for weeks staring at my tank looking and looking for them, but nothing was found. My pods were nowhere to be found either. After about 2 weeks I saw pod activity again. I believe the FWE triggered something with them to either hide or hibernate. Either way, the most stressful 6 weeks of my life!!!!

Happy to say, I no longer do anything straight into my DT. Everything gets treated, inspected and in QT for 72 days before being allowed into my DT.

I learned the hard way with fish, corals and even inverts how not only important, but invaluable the role of a good quarantine setup is. I treat and QT/OT all fish for roughly 4 weeks and I also QT all inverts for 72 days.

Something brought velvet and ich into my tank from an invert order and coral order. Ya, it sucks buying something new and having to wait for it to be ready to be put on display, but, to me, the cost to setup and maintain the qt setups, the time and cost to treat and QT everything and the extra room they take up, FAR outweigh the time and money spent to eradicate the issue after the fact. Especially if you get velvet and have thousands of dollars worth of fish die within a matter of a few days.

 

[reefins]

I had a yellow coris wrasse (male) once that ate nudis.. or at least controlled them.