Instant ocean help

[bif24701]

I use a whole bag at a time

Me too

 

[Gator1970]

I challenge anyone who doubts this to do just that, test your freshly made water; and if you just test the next day you will see the difference. Fowlrs don't matter, but your reef will suffer and you will be dosing to bring back up your, ca, alk, and mg. Red Sea has a vid on youtube covering this and I have spoken with Seachem as well. Pre mixing and storing water is old school and the most stable way to do water changes on your reef is to mix when ready. Choosing a salt mix with parameters in line with the parameters you keep your reef at, is best.

I agree that freshly mixed and next day will be different - it takes some time for new saltwater to stabilize with atmospheric gasses - what is news to me is that alk & calc will significantly decrease from day two onwards. If true this just made water changes an even bigger hassle than they already are, lol....

 

[lion king]

Did you shake the salt in the container (or roll the container) prior to using it to mix???? This is always important to distribute all the salts in it!!!!

This is such an old wives tale, like you could possibly shake up a bag of salt and evenly mix the elements. It's not like they mix 2 parts ca to 2 parts alk to 2 parts mg like baking a cake; even lab made salt mix has been evaporated from liquid form. It's a lame excuse from salt manufacturers when you test your salt and the parameters are inconsistent with their claimed parameters. Again I just challenge anyone that doesn't buy it, it doesn't matter what salt you use, how much you shake it; test your freshly made salt, then store it and test it again.

 

[Tsev03]

I have learned a lot. Thanks everyone

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Those values do not look correct to me. IO should never need additional alkalinity added to it. It usually runs in the ballpark of 11 dKH at 35 ppt salinity. Some people don't use it because alk is too high, and no one avoids it because alk is too low.

Double check that you are using the tests correctly, and that the salinity is appropriate.

FWIW, I used it for 20 years and think it a fine choice.

 

[Tsev03]

Those values do not look correct to me. IO should never need additional alkalinity added to it. It usually runs in the ballpark of 11 dKH at 35 ppt salinity. Some people don't use it because alk is too high, and no one avoids it because alk is too low.

Double check that you are using the tests correctly, and that the salinity is appropriate.

FWIW, I used it for 20 years and think it a fine choice.

Thanks for commenting
I may have caused the problem by adding the salt before I got the proper amount of water, could that have caused it? I had to change out my di resin and I think I added the salt too early, maybe at only 25 gals of water. I did test it 3 times but that may have been days after I made the water. Is it safe to use the water in my FOWLR tank? I'm going start fresh for my reef tank.

 

[Tsev03]

Those values do not look correct to me. IO should never need additional alkalinity added to it. It usually runs in the ballpark of 11 dKH at 35 ppt salinity. Some people don't use it because alk is too high, and no one avoids it because alk is too low.

Double check that you are using the tests correctly, and that the salinity is appropriate.

FWIW, I used it for 20 years and think it a fine choice.

Thanks for commenting
I may have caused the problem by adding the salt before I got the proper amount of water, could that have caused it? I had to change out my di resin and I think I added the salt too early, maybe at only 25 gals of water. I did test it 3 times but that may have been days after I made the water. Is it safe to use the water in my FOWLR tank? I'm going start fresh for my reef tank.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Agree with Randy.....what are you using to measure salinity? If a swing arm, they are notoriously inaccurate. If a refractometer, when was it last calibrated. You also don't want to add salt until you have the full compliment of water. This could result in too high a concentration causing precipitation of calcium carbonate....but this would be evident with a snow globe look to the water as it mixes.

 

[Tsev03]

Agree with Randy.....what are you using to measure salinity? If a swing arm, they are notoriously inaccurate. If a refractometer, when was it last calibrated. You also don't want to add salt until you have the full compliment of water. This could result in too high a concentration causing precipitation of calcium carbonate....but this would be evident with a snow globe look to the water as it mixes.

That's probably what happened. Stupid mistake ugh will not do that again
Thanks for the help

 

[Tsev03]

Finally got enough water made. I waited till I had 50 gals then added half a bag of instant ocean waiting 10 minutes then added more checking each time till I got it right. Gave it an hour to mix then tested and kh was 10.3 and ca was 350 mg 1170 so I added ca and mg. I'm sure that it was the way I mixed it and not using it for a few days.

 

[Mark Derail]

All RODI water, refractometer sg 1.026 @26c. Nitrate barely registers, phosphate at or below 0.03.
After doing many serial water changes to cure those live rocks. Two batches of "rescue" tanks, at some 30 rocks.
A few fish died, put them in QT, got some cupramine going just in case.

Yesterday I finally got my Salinert test kits for Ca, KH, Mg - because good advice - don't add anything to water if you can't test for it.

So I check the main tank, calcium I used the entire 1.0ml and still the color didn't turn. Needed 3 more drops. So above 500.
Same for magnesium, the entire 1.0ml and the color changed, indicating 1500.
Then the Alk - a whopping 13.1 ! Tried it twice to be sure.

Then I figured, time for some control! Mixed up 40g of Instant Ocean, expecting to do another 50% WC after doing another 50% just two days ago...
And tested the Instant Ocean. Shocker!

Alk 13.1 !! From a fresh batch! No wonder the display tank is at 13.1 also. Not 11, but 13.1. Salinert kit expires in 2020, and in it, they explain that they've improved the kit.

So before you start blaming X Y Z or looking for a problem, compare a fresh batch of newly made ocean water to your tank.

Now how do I get these numbers down ??? I was about to do a big WC, now I'm not so sure, replacing 500/13.1/1500 with similar new water won't do much.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Have you calibrated your refractometer with 1.026 standard? I'm guessing your actual salt concentration is too high causing other parameters to be high as well.

 

[Mark Derail]

Have you calibrated your refractometer with 1.026 standard? I'm guessing your actual salt concentration is too high causing other parameters to be high as well.

Very good guess, but no. The RODI water is bang-on 0, and in the Aqua Forest CA test kit, there is a small bottle of "perfect" water at 33pt. Never opened. So I just tried a reading with it, and is at 33pt on the meter.
I'm currently adding slowly RODI water in the overflow box, so it mixes well before going into the sump. Sump has 3 compartments.

Just before adding RODI water, the tank was at 36pt (1.027) so going to try to bring it slowly down to 34pt, then recheck.

Meanwhile in my big Rubbermaid tub there's 40g worth of Instant Ocean at 35pt/1.026, and it spent the night with an airstone & water heater. That still tests at Alk 13.1 (there was 0.16ml left, Salifert kit)

I feel like a man with two mechanical watches - now you're not sure what time it is.
I only have Salifert kits for MG & Alk(KH). I have an Aqua Forest Calcium and a Salifert Calcium - they both tested the same on calcium 500 + 2 or 3 extra drops.

 

[Mark Derail]

Some 3L of RODI later, Alk down to below 11, and sp at 1.025. Phosphate is below 0.03 and nitrate barely registers, so not going to do a WC.

Maybe I'll have a bath in the Rubbermaid, it's big enough to sit in. Instant Ocean good for the body? At 13 Alk(KH)? Based on my arm-dunking experience, maybe not...

 

[Mark Derail]

It came down quicker than I thought, Ca = 430, Alk = 10.2
The magnesium is doing it's job, I'll test all three tomorrow night.

Thanks for the reassurance guys.

 

[TbyZ]

Can I add enough ca kh and mg to freshly made water made with instant ocean salt? I tested it and ca was only 330 kh was only 6.7 mg was only 1185. I have brs 2 part. Should I still increase it slowly to the water even tho it's just for a water change?

cancel that

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It came down quicker than I thought, Ca = 430, Alk = 10.2
The magnesium is doing it's job, I'll test all three tomorrow night.

Thanks for the reassurance guys.

Which job is magnesium doing? Dosing magnesium generally does not increase the rate of consumption of alkalinity and calcium.

In many cases, it reduces the rate of consumption by reducing the abiotic preciptiation of calcium carbonate.

 

[Mark Derail]

I haven't dosed, it's just that Mg was at 1500. So all three being high (Ca, KH, Mg) but with nitrate/phosphate almost nil, nature did it's job.

If Mg would have been low, I don't think Ca + KH would have come down much.

Only thing I did was add 1g of RODI water.

Upon reflection, when I noticed s.g. 1.027, is that with the frequent WCs there was no provision for evaporation. So the remaining 50% gradually increased in salinity and also Ca-KH-Mg.
Would make sense. For a 90g system (display + sump), changing some 250g of new Instant Ocean within 10 days - because phosphates were way too high - doing 50% WC, would have increased the other parameters.

The 1g RODI water and TIME did the rest.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If Mg would have been low, I don't think Ca + KH would have come down much.

I'm confused. Why do you think that?

The effect is mostly the opposite.

 

[Mark Derail]

I'm confused. Why do you think that?

The effect is mostly the opposite.

My understanding, from researching into the issue & multiple sources. Like this guy (Tidal Gardens, also Fish of Hex, Coral12g)

Even on the bottle of Seachem Reef Complete.

Also I remember reading from an article that you need Magnesium to help things along. However my levels were never low, and in par with the fresh batch of Instant Ocean.

dang good thing I followed the great advice - don't put anything in the tank you can't test against. That and don't be afraid to do WCs.
It just freaked me out that Instant Ocean has such high numbers, and kept losing fish even when phosphates were below 0.03.

I think from now on I'll make new water at s.g. 1.025 on the nose from now on. Since I don't have an ATO yet, I add manually ever other day in the overflow box pure RODI as needed.
When I start the next batch of SW I'll test that first.

Perhaps using the 5g bucket, versus the box with 4 bags, the mix isn't what it should be. Perhaps some of the mix settles differently during transportation, like the Brazil Nut effect.
This bucket is halfway used up, then it's the box that makes 200g / 4 bags. Going to mix these up good for good measure.