Internal Issues

ltrace · Apr 13, 2017

Will run carbon today.

Jose H · Apr 28, 2017

Is it ok to medicate or dose food as a preventative? If I don't see any signs of white stringy poop can I still do it or is that a big NO?

Humblefish · Apr 28, 2017

Jose H said:
Is it ok to medicate or dose food as a preventative? If I don't see any signs of white stringy poop can I still do it or is that a big NO?

All medications have side effects. So, I don't like to use them unnecessarily or unless the probability of a particular disease is high (ex. prophylactically using copper or CP to treat Marine Velvet Disease).

IME; most intestinal worms are mild and you will eventually see white stringy poop hanging out of your fish. So, don't food soak metro until you see that. It is even reef safe, so long as you also use Seachem Focus to bind the medication to the food.

Luna · Jun 7, 2017

[emoji227]

DanielJameS · Jun 12, 2017

Humblefish said:
All medications have side effects. JSo, I don't like to use them unnecessarily or unless the probability of a particular disease is high (ex. prophylactically using copper or CP to treat Marine Velvet Disease).

IME; most intestinal worms are mild and you will eventually see white stringy poop hanging out of your fish. So, don't food soak metro until you see that. It is even reef safe, so long as you also use Seachem Focus to bind the medication to the food.

I apologize if this has been asked, but in regards to soaking food with meds, (metro/prazi) are they "reef safe" in the sense that inverts may consume that food as well? So really only harmful to corals?

Pmj · Jun 12, 2017

@Humblefish, @melypr1985 , and anyone else that can help:
Have a leopard wrasse sick. I've had him for I think at least 2 months. He took about 2 weeks to come out of hiding and since then has eaten great and been very active. Only him and a pygmy angel in the tank (which was in the tank a month before him). They are in my second tank where I put new arrivals.

Feeding is live brine at least once daily (often twice) and also try to feed NLS pellets (which I never saw him eat) and frozen roggers food (which he eats occasionally but not to the degree he eats brine). Yesterday he was fine, active and eating, today when I came home from work he was laying on his side, breathing heavy and what looks like white poop coming out. It's not very stringy poop, more like two white balls stuck together.

I dosed Prazi based on some quick internet searching here, otherwise the only other medication I have on hand is furan-2 (although it's early enough I could buy something else and move him to a hospital tank, the current tank has LR and a few small frags).

Took a video:

Any thoughts on what I can do?

melypr1985 · Jun 12, 2017

Pmj said:
@Humblefish, @melypr1985 , and anyone else that can help:
Have a leopard wrasse sick. I've had him for I think at least 2 months. He took about 2 weeks to come out of hiding and since then has eaten great and been very active. Only him and a pygmy angel in the tank (which was in the tank a month before him). They are in my second tank where I put new arrivals.

Feeding is live brine at least once daily (often twice) and also try to feed NLS pellets (which I never saw him eat) and frozen roggers food (which he eats occasionally but not to the degree he eats brine). Yesterday he was fine, active and eating, today when I came home from work he was laying on his side, breathing heavy and what looks like white poop coming out. It's not very stringy poop, more like two white balls stuck together.

I dosed Prazi based on some quick internet searching here, otherwise the only other medication I have on hand is furan-2 (although it's early enough I could buy something else and move him to a hospital tank, the current tank has LR and a few small frags).

Took a video:

Any thoughts on what I can do?

These guys are very prone to worms... both internal and external. Prazi is great for external worms like Flukes but only somewhat successful for intestinal worms. You'll need metroplex for that. If she isn't eating, which I'm sure she isn't at this point, then you'll need to pu ther in QT and dose the water with metroplex and hope enough gets into her gut to help.

I will add that leopards are not easy to keep without QT. Most of the time it requires luck as well and tons of luck to just put them in the tank without treating for the worms.

Pmj · Jun 12, 2017

Ok. I have some plastic bins I've used for TTM on other fish but since wrasses need sand he went straight into the observation tank. I could use those for treating, but my next problem is I'm going out of town wednesday morning till Friday. Is one day of treating with metro my best bet?

Pmj · Jun 12, 2017

@melypr1985 Should I do a freshwater dip as well or would that stress him out even more?

melypr1985 · Jun 12, 2017

Pmj said:
@melypr1985 Should I do a freshwater dip as well or would that stress him out even more?

It will probably stress her out (that's a female just fyi) but it may save her. Do the full freshwater dip and start metro in one of those containers. 1 day isn't going to do much good at all really. Do you have anybody who can help out while you are out of town?

Pmj · Jun 12, 2017

I don't unfortunately, everyone is going. I bought some metro. I will do the FW dip and prepare the other hospital tank. Thanks for your help. It's crazy to me it was so sudden, I hope there is still time.

Pmj · Jun 12, 2017

And she looks like she died:/ I made RODI water, heavily aerated, temp looked to be the same based on the heater being in for about 5 minutes. Before I even netted her she was starting to spasm/shake a few times. After I put her in she looked limp the whole time. I put her back and she doesn't look breathing.

This is a real bummer, one of the most beautiful fish I've ever had with a lot of personality. I never even noticed anything until today.

Pmj · Jun 12, 2017

@melypr1985 Based on another thread I'm reading now where you posted, I possibly should have done the freshwater dip before dosing Prazi. Sucks to learn now.

melypr1985 · Jun 12, 2017

Pmj said:
@melypr1985 Based on another thread I'm reading now where you posted, I possibly should have done the freshwater dip before dosing Prazi. Sucks to learn now.

Yes this is true in some cases. If the fluke infestation is heavy the spasming of the flatworms after prazi is dosed can be very traumatic for the fish.

Humblefish · Jun 13, 2017

DanielJameS said:
I apologize if this has been asked, but in regards to soaking food with meds, (metro/prazi) are they "reef safe" in the sense that inverts may consume that food as well? So really only harmful to corals?

I would use a binder (e.g. Seachem Focus) to make it "reef safe": https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/metronidazole.298762/#post-3655831

DanielJameS · Jun 13, 2017

Humblefish said:
I would use a binder (e.g. Seachem Focus) to make it "reef safe": https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/metronidazole.298762/#post-3655831

I guess more specifically, is metro safe for example a cleaner shrimp to ingest? It's almost impossible to keep those guys off of any consumable food put into a tank haha

Humblefish · Jun 13, 2017

DanielJameS said:
I guess more specifically, is metro safe for example a cleaner shrimp to ingest? It's almost impossible to keep those guys off of any consumable food put into a tank haha

I wouldn't chance it. Whenever I use med laced food in a DT, I turn off all my pumps and feed just a little at a time in the center of the tank. This ensures the fish gobble it all up before any inverts have much of a chance at it.

gman107 · Nov 5, 2017

Can the intestinal worms be treated by only treating the water ? With prazi or with Gc ?

swensos · Nov 5, 2017

gman107 said:
Can the intestinal worms be treated by only treating the water ? With prazi or with Gc ?

In my experience, I've had very little luck with only treating the water. If you can get the fish to eat medicated food, it is far more likely to survive and overcome the infection. Dosing the water metro or gc is kind of a Hail Mary in order to get the fish to the point where it will eat medicated food.

Humblefish · Nov 5, 2017

swensos said:
In my experience, I've had very little luck with only treating the water. If you can get the fish to eat medicated food, it is far more likely to survive and overcome the infection. Dosing the water metro or gc is kind of a Hail Mary in order to get the fish to the point where it will eat medicated food.

^^ This; Food soaking delivers the med(s) directly into the gut, where the worms live.