inverts are still alive after dosing copper

[ddc0715]

Can someone tell me why my emerald crabs some snails and my hermit crab are still alive; since my dt they are housed in has been at 2.5ppm of copper (copper power) for a month now? i mean ?????????? if I had known this I would not have spent all that time catching what inverts I could before dosing it?

 

[MnFish1]

Can someone tell me why my emerald crabs some snails and my hermit crab are still alive; since my dt they are housed in has been at 2.5ppm of copper (copper power) for a month now? i mean ?????????? if I had known this I would not have spent all that time catching what inverts I could before dosing it?

There are a couple possibilities:

1. Copper does not necessarily kill 'everything' at a given concentration. as concentrations rise - it will kill more - but - its possible that some (a small number) of your snails etc were more resistant.
2. It is possible that your level was not 2.5 ppm 24/7. (ie - a faulty test, adsorption to rock, etc.). It can be extremely difficult to maintain a CONSTANT 2.5 ppm in a display tank with rock, algae, etc.

 

[JumboShrimp]

I had a large hermit crab once that prolonged exposure to copper couldn’t kill. lol.

 

[Miami Reef]

My tank is also at 2.5ppm copper and the cleaner shrimps and hermit crabs are STILL alive!

However, the snails and copepods died pretty quickly. I think the smaller the organism the more susceptible they are to copper.

And I do have rocks and sand, but I tested 3x a day during the beginning and copper never dropped below 2.4ppm. I use the hannah checker preform the test perfectly. I add .15ml daily of copper because the rocks absorb about .10ppm a day (I test prior to adding copper daily).

 

[ddc0715]

Hannah is what I use to test and I just tested and I am at 2.0 ppm on a 260 TG system. so over a 30 day period, I have dropped from 2.5 to 2.0.

never less. don't always believe what they tell you, is what I'm starting to learn.

side note: i bought a fish from the lfs and their water tested out at 5.0ppm of copper, my Hannah was blinking when it completed the test and the water sample was barny purple. lol

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hannah is what I use to test and I just tested and I am at 2.0 ppm on a 260 TG system. so over a 30 day period, I have dropped from 2.5 to 2.0.

never less. don't always believe what they tell you, is what I'm starting to learn.

side note: i bought a fish from the lfs and their water tested out at 5.0ppm of copper, my Hannah was blinking when it completed the test and the water sample was barny purple. lol

Crabs and shrimp often survive bound copper for some time, but snails usually do not. What if there is some issue with your copper power, or your test kit? What if you Hanna is reading two times too high? Wouldn't that account for this? If you have a need to mix up some saltwater, you could mix it, dose it with the exact amount of copper, then run your Hanna test on it. You should get a reading of 2.1 ppm for copper power and 2.5 for coppersafe.

Jay

 

[davidcalgary29]

All points are well-taken. I'd love to see a copper toxicity chart for inverts, but am not about to embark on scientific experiments with my creatures. One lone trochus snail snuck into one of my QT tanks this summer when I was treating it with copper; it died at 1.5ppm.

Hermit crabs are wondrous creatures, and survive conditions that seem to take everything else out. I mistakenly raised my salinity to about 1.040 when I had just a hermit and a few snails in one of my builds; the hermit was the only thing that survived. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they could survive therapeutic doses of copper -- at least for a little while -- but I'd be afraid that their carapaces would absorb the copper and then slowly release it back to them, eventually killing them over longer periods.

 

[ddc0715]

I have no idea. but they live and are still kicking. so copper and inverts myth kinda busted. but yet still accurate.. lol.

I'm not going to play the "do I have a bad test. I mean I tested it with my Hannah and the lfs tested the water and we line up on the 2.3 ppm so my tester is fine.

 

[moz71]

I have learned that there is no absolute’s in this hobby. It is more a matter of what willing to risk based on BEST known science. I had a goldfish once live though 100 degree water on failed heater and electrocuted. Lol Some things are just more resistant.

 

[moz71]

I have no idea. but they live and are still kicking. so copper and inverts myth kinda busted. but yet still accurate.. lol.

I'm not going to play the "do I have a bad test. I mean I tested it with my Hannah and the lfs tested the water and we line up on the 2.3 ppm so my tester is fine.

Also I agree with you. I think the whole argument that the copper was not perfectly kept at a above thereaputic level is laughable! I can understand to kill the parasites but just because it fell under a certain level for a period of 30 days caused the snail to live!!! Come on!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Also I agree with you. I think the whole argument that the copper was not perfectly kept at a above thereaputic level is laughable! I can understand to kill the parasites but just because it fell under a certain level for a period of 30 days caused the snail to live!!! Come on!

Correct, the whole idea of copper treatments failing if it dips momentarily below a certain level simply isn’t true.
Jay