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AquariumSpecialty

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vangvace

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I have a question which may sound stupid. Does the sodium testing equate with salinity?
If you are in ionic balance then sodium should be about 70% of your total salinity. The reason I view this test as important to measure is many 2 part dosing solutions will raise sodium levels over time, resulting in an imbalance. The complications of that I am still wrapping my head around
 

KJoFan

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How long do the probes last: 6 months to 18 Months depending on the water quality of the tank and the amount of tests done.
Am I the only one that thinks 6 moths isn't very long for a $130 probe? Potentially $260/yr just to keep this thing going along with cost of reagents?
 

robbyg

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If you are in ionic balance then sodium should be about 70% of your total salinity. The reason I view this test as important to measure is many 2 part dosing solutions will raise sodium levels over time, resulting in an imbalance. The complications of that I am still wrapping my head around
My assumption is that they just do the math internally in the unit and give you the Salinity value and then an option to look at the Raw Sodium value. In a perfect system these would be in balance but yes I agree what does it really mean if the Sodium value gives you a higher value when converted to Salinity vs lets say what your dedicated salinity probe is reading.

Anyone have any ideas on how raw Sodium numbers can be used in the real world?
 

robbyg

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Am I the only one that thinks 6 moths isn't very long for a $130 probe? Potentially $260/yr just to keep this thing going along with cost of reagents?
The price will probably drop over time. I also think that the 6 months must be if your doing tests at the maximum rate. I am a bit worried when they talk about it depends on the water quality and amount of tests. The water quality factor is not really explained, it could mean a lot of things and I really wish that someone had some real world numbers and situations to present to us.
 

Brew12

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Anyone have any ideas on how raw Sodium numbers can be used in the real world?
I'm not sure there is one for people who do regular water changes.

I have a feeling this was included because it was easy to do and added very little to the cost of the unit.
 

KJoFan

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The price will probably drop over time. I also think that the 6 months must be if your doing tests at the maximum rate. I am a bit worried when they talk about it depends on the water quality and amount of tests. The water quality factor is not really explained, it could mean a lot of things and I really wish that someone had some real world numbers and situations to present to us.
The water quality line was what caught my eye too. Quite ambiguous at this point. Which is why I figured a 6 month timeline. As you say, it surely depends on frequency of testing and such, but even so, struck me as an expensive and frequent replacement cost.
 

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My assumption is that they just do the math internally in the unit and give you the Salinity value and then an option to look at the Raw Sodium value. In a perfect system these would be in balance but yes I agree what does it really mean if the Sodium value gives you a higher value when converted to Salinity vs lets say what your dedicated salinity probe is reading.

Anyone have any ideas on how raw Sodium numbers can be used in the real world?
? They are giving you the raw sodium levels. @Randy Holmes-Farley might be able to shed better light on sodium levels and their meanings in reef aquarium.
 

robbyg

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? They are giving you the raw sodium levels. @Randy Holmes-Farley might be able to shed better light on sodium levels and their meanings in reef aquarium.
That is what they say on the website. At first I thought it might have been a German translation error, but it does indeed seem to be sodium. I guess in software they can convert that into salinity but I don't know if that value will be exactly the same as the real salinity. Yes it would be nice if @Randy Holmes-Farley chimes in when he has a chance.
 

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What I am trying to figure out is if I need another dosing head just to replenish saltwater as I do my tests. The costs just keep adding up and another container to make sure it is kept filled.
 

vangvace

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That is what they say on the website. At first I thought it might have been a German translation error, but it does indeed seem to be sodium. I guess in software they can convert that into salinity but I don't know if that value will be exactly the same as the real salinity. Yes it would be nice if @Randy Holmes-Farley chimes in when he has a chance.
It isn't. Sodium is 70%ish of total salinity, but only if it is balanced. Add some buffer, baking soda, etc and it throws that off
 

robbyg

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It isn't. Sodium is 70%ish of total salinity, but only if it is balanced. Add some buffer, baking soda, etc and it throws that off
Correct!
I am trying to wrap my head around the best use for this. If one converts it to what would be a proper salinity value based on the 70% scale and then I compared it to the salinity probe on my controller the difference in readings would tell me something, I think? I am not sure if a direct Sodium reading or the calculated difference can be useful. I figure it must be or why would they include Sodium?

I am stoked about the Nitrate test, that is something that I have looked forward to as well as Ca and Mg. It would have been nice if Alk was included in the same device.
 

vangvace

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Correct!
I am trying to wrap my head around the best use for this. If one converts it to what would be a proper salinity value based on the 70% scale and then I compared it to the salinity probe on my controller the difference in readings would tell me something, I think? I am not sure if a direct Sodium reading or the calculated difference can be useful. I figure it must be or why would they include Sodium?

I am stoked about the Nitrate test, that is something that I have looked forward to as well as Ca and Mg. It would have been nice if Alk was included in the same device.
I think that knowing you have an ionic imbalance can clue us in on certain types of coral mortality or the next evolution of 2 part solution. And using up to 10ml of water for a test is great.

@[email protected]

Really curious about the detection range of nitrate?
1 ppm accuracy, or are you looking for like a 0-100 type of thing?
 

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Really curious about the detection range of nitrate?
It have been answered

Target is:
5 - 10 ppm for Ca, Mg, K, Na
0.5 - 1 ppm for NO3
@vangvace I do not know if it is you or me that have misunderstand these 70 %. As I understand it 70 % of the compounds in seawater have its origin from NaCl - there Na is the positive ion and Cl the negative. IMO - this is not the same as to say that Na is responsible for 70 % of the salinity. It is also my opinion that a two part solution will not give an excess of Na ions, on the contrary it will give an excess of chloride ions (if it is not balanced with (as an example) sodium sulfate) and that the original Balling three parts was developed just with a balance of Na and Cl ions as a goal.

Knowing the 4 most important (for salinity) positive ions in your saltwater - it is possible to compute an estimate of your salinity - as an example with help of this calculator This link will also explain why and how.

The ion director will give you these most important cations - but you would also need the sulfate content too (if you not know your chloride levels) in order to get a good estimate of your salinity.

As an example - from my last Triton Lab:s report I used only the four cations ion that Ion director will give us and get an salinity of 33.77 psu. If I put in my S result too - I get a salinity of 34.50 psu. If I use all that the calculator demands - I get 34.52 psu. In the first example - I had S to 0 - if I put S to the normal 900 ppm (in seawater) - I get 34.39 psu.

My salinity meter read 33.4 psu at the sample time and my calibrated refractometer give me just under 35 psu.

IMO - knowing the four cations that ION director gives us and assume a S content of 900 ppm will give us a very good estimate of our salinity - using the calculator I linked to.

Sincerely Lasse
 
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Dr. Dendrostein

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1575574100615.png

ION DIRECTOR
NOW AVAILABLE FOR PRE-ORDER

1575574174508.png

Special pre-order discount, pricing and shipping info
How to pre-order
1. Click the link above
2. On pre-order page, scroll down and click the "Order now" button
3. Provide the following details:

  • Full name (First / Last)
  • Shipping info
  • Item you want to pre-order and quantity
4. We will add you to the list and contact you shortly with more information.

ION Director pricing
ION Director single device: $499.90 ($424.92 if ordered before 01/31/20)
ION Director Standalone Set: $899.90 ($764.92 if ordered before 01/31/20)
ION Director Slave Set: $849.90 ($722.42 if ordered before 01/31/20)
Replacement multi-ion probe: $129.90


What is the ION Director?

1575574372896.png



Automated Ca, Mg, K, Na and NO3 testing made easy!
Achieve the next level of water testing automation with the ION Director (IOND). Through the use of ion-selective technology, the IOND automatically measures and controls Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium, Sodium, and Nitrate levels in saltwater aquariums.

Get a deeper understanding of your aquarium with the IOND. The ION Director can be used alone or together with a KH Director (KHD). Coupled with the KHD for Alkalinity monitoring and control, the IOND and KHD are the perfect tools for controlling your parameters like never before.

Each parameter can be measured and automatically controlled. If one or more parameters are too low or too high, the IOND can automatically determine how much of an adjustment is needed to maintain stable parameters.


1575574409971.png

One Multi-Ion sensor and no reagents
On going research and testing has allowed us to specially develop our own multi-ion sensor. No need for a dedicated ion sensor per parameter plus a reference electrode, no need for single reagents per parameter. Only one multi-ion sensor and reasonably priced reference fluids are required.


1575574479047.png


Ultimate accuracy and precision
As with many things in this hobby, stability is key. Through the use of four dosing pump heads, the IOND effectively performs measurements with lab-grade precision and accuracy, each and every time.

Out of the four pump heads, two are used to transport two separate reference fluids for automatic ion-sensor calibration. The use of these heads eliminate the need to manually calibrate the sensor. This ensures that each test is used with a freshly calibrated sensor, every time.


1575574524242.png

Pairs perfectly with the KH Director
Fully automate and control the aquarium's most important water parameters with the IOND and KHD.


Perfect integration into GHL Connect
Use the extensive logbook and analysis functions in your app and cloud myGHL.
1575574611108.png


ION Director confirmed details
  • Automated Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium, Sodium and Nitrate testing and control
  • All tests performed with a single GHL developed multi-ion sensor for superior precision and accuracy
  • Hardware is prepared for future parameter add-ons
  • Uses only 2 reference fluids for ALL current and future parameters
  • Cost effective reference fluids
  • Automatic sensor calibration before each measurement
  • Automatic data logging and charting
  • Works in conjunction with a 4 pump GHL Doser 2.1
  • Can be used alongside GHL Standalone Doser (no aquarium controller required) or with a ProfiLux 3 or 4 controller
  • ION Director / Doser 2.1 Slave and Standalone packages will be available
  • Controllable through GHL Connect (app, webserver and cloud) and more
1575574747293.png
WOW! !!!!!
 

AlgaeBarn

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It have been answered



@vangvace I do not know if it is you or me that have misunderstand these 70 %. As I understand it 70 % of the compounds in seawater have its origin from NaCl - there Na is the positive ion and Cl the negative. IMO - this is not the same as to say that Na is responsible for 70 % of the salinity. It is also my opinion that a two part solution will not give an excess of Na ions, on the contrary it will give an excess of chloride ions (if it is not balanced with (as an example) sodium sulfate) and that the original Balling three parts was developed just with a balance of Na and Cl ions as a goal.

Knowing the 4 most important (for salinity) positive ions in your saltwater - it is possible to compute an estimate of your salinity - as an example with help of this calculator This link will also explain why and how.

The ion director will give you these most important cations - but you would also need the sulfate content too (if you not know your chloride levels) in order to get a good estimate of your salinity.

As an example - from my last Triton Lab:s report I used only the four cations ion that Ion director will give us and get an salinity of 33.77 psu. If I put in my S result too - I get a salinity of 34.50 psu. If I use all that the calculator demands - I get 34.52 psu. In the first example - I had S to 0 - if I put S to the normal 900 ppm (in seawater) - I get 34.39 psu.

My salinity meter read 33.4 psu at the sample time and my calibrated refractometer give me just under 35 psu.

IMO - knowing the four cations that ION director gives us and assume a S content of 900 ppm will give us a very good estimate of our salinity - using the calculator I linked to.

Sincerely Lasse
I think that knowing you have an ionic imbalance can clue us in on certain types of coral mortality or the next evolution of 2 part solution. And using up to 10ml of water for a test is great.


1 ppm accuracy, or are you looking for like a 0-100 type of thing?
Sorry, you must have misunderstood my question. I am curious about what the applicable measurement range is? 0ppm nitrate to 100ppm? 0 to 500ppm?
 

AquariumSpecialty

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Am I the only one that thinks 6 moths isn't very long for a $130 probe? Potentially $260/yr just to keep this thing going along with cost of reagents?
It will only last 6 months if you are testing every hour of every day. It's a wear and tear item. The more you test the the faster it will wear out. I don't think most people will even come close to testing that often.
 

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