Iron Concentrate Complex - Korallen-Zucht, good for removing Po4

Discussion in 'Reef Chemistry by Randy Holmes-Farley' started by Skibum, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. Skibum

    Skibum Active Member

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    I understand that Iron citrate can be used for a Po4 remover, does anyone know if the product in the title would accomplish that? I have some, and my results after dosing with it and testing Po4 are negligible, perhaps I'm not using enough. Before I continue, I'm wondering if it's even the right type of Iron complex to accomplish that task.
     
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  2. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    Any iron ion, if it can break free from whatever is currently holding it, can potentially precipitate in a variety of ways, including as iron phosphate. That said, I have no idea what this material is or how easily the iron can escape.

    Do you know how much iron is being dosed with it?
     
  3. Skibum

    Skibum Active Member

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    Thanks Randy. The most obvious answer is I have no idea how much iron is being dosed as the manufacturer doesn't disclose how much iron concentrate is in the product. I suppose what it comes down to is I will have to make my own. I think you have a recipe somewhere.... ;-)
     
  4. David Cher

    David Cher Active Member

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  5. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    Here's my DIY for iron dosing using Fergon tablets from a drug store, but the amount needed to control phosphate may be substantially higher:

    Take 1 tablet and dissolve in 100 mL RO/DI (overnight soak). Let the solids settle out and use the liquid. Then I dose about 1-5 mL to my 200 gallons (dose is not critical) occasionally.

    One tablet is 27 mg iron, so that dose comes to about 0.3 to 1.4 mg.

    Put into 200 gallons, that's about 0.4 to 1.8 ppb.
     
  6. Skibum

    Skibum Active Member

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    Hi David,

    I'm well aware of DSR, this is my poor man's attempt at it ;-). Outside of his products (located in Holland) I'm unable to source an Iron product that specifically controls po4 like his method purports. I'm not sure how much chemistry I'm willing to do here, I may just end up buying his product and having it shipped.
     
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  7. greg 45

    greg 45 Active Member

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    Randy I would like to update this post with what I have been Searching. According to DSR the Iron they seem to use or is in ther post is Iron citrate . I am by no means a chemist and don't know the difference. Also stated red sea iron is a trace element and will do nothing for lowering po4. I don't want to get kicked off a face book page for trying to learn something new. They also think lanthanum more toxic than iron or aluminum and has no place in reef tanks also no biological function. Please advise
     
  8. Tmmste

    Tmmste Active Member

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    I'm from the Netherlands and know a fellow reefer who had succes with ironsulfate and muriatic acid (few ml per liter). He explained this kept the iron suspended as this solution was used to react with phosphates (not as a trace element). Apart from that I also ordered sodium citrate, fe(II)sulfate and ascorbic acid to experiment with iron chelation, to what extend this will chelate iron enough to make it available as a trace element.. I will have to find out in the course of time. If it does not work it will eventually turn into fe(III), react with po4 and for ironphosphate.. I believe a chelated form of Fe(II) is used as a trace element. With Fe(III)-EDDHA and Fe(III)-DPTA I did not notice any polyp exansion nor growth from macro algae (probably because it is ferric iron). Currently I do have Fe(II)-bisglycate and Fe(II)-DPTA. From the Fe-bisglycate I do notice polyp exansion although I do not know how long the iron stays in the watercolumn. If you also start experimenting, please let me know your findings.
     
  9. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    Most iron supplements likely bind some phosphate. Part of the issue is how much you dose. Dosing just enough to be an effective iron supplement is not enough to noticeably impact phosphate, and folks dose more when they want phosphate binding.

    I do not know the relative tox issues of lanthanum, aluminum and iron when all are dosed soluble enough to bind phosphate. I don’t actually prefer dosing any of these to unnaturally high levels.

    A less strongly chelated iron is probably the best bet for phosphate binding. This method will also reduce alkalinity somewhat since iron oxide/hydroxide will also precipitate.
     
  10. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Partner Member 2018 Partner Member 2019 North Alabama Reef Club

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    I know it isn't directly related to this topic, but it may be helpful.

    For some reason, my system likes to become iron limited. I had gone a few weeks without dosing iron or doing a water change and once again, my chaeto stopped growing and my nutrients started climbing. This can be seen in my pH graph. Once I added an iron supplement on Jun 9th my fuge was once again more effective at limiting my pH drop overnight. My NO3 and PO4 is also declining. So while it isn't removing PO4 via precipitation, adding iron is indirectly reducing nutrients in my tank.
    upload_2018-6-14_8-26-0.png
     
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