Is a complete list of ingredients available for Balling part C?

AKReefing

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Is a complete list of ingredients available for Balling part C? All I can find are general statements on the Internet. No SDS.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Is a complete list of ingredients available for Balling part C? All I can find are general statements on the Internet. No SDS.

Ingredients are claimed to be seawater salt mix without the added sodium chloride. I’ve never been clear if it is also missing the alk and/or calcium additives, since it might not be stable with those added, but would seemingly have everything else. As an aside, it is easy for a salt mix maker to make such a product because they can just leave out an ingredient or two.
 
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Ingredients are claimed to be seawater salt mix without the added sodium chloride. I’ve never been clear if it is also missing the alk and/or calcium additives, since it might not be stable with those added, but would seemingly have everything else. As an aside, it is easy for a salt mix maker to make such a product because they can just leave out an ingredient or two.
I would think they'd leave out the calcium chloride dihydrate (Part A), Sodium carbonate/sodium bicarbonate (Part B) and sodium chloride salt. I'm wondering why they don't list the "everything else" just to give people a warm fuzzy. I'm sure their competitors have already analyzed it anyway, and I doubt it's all that cheap for a hobbyist to collect all the individual components to DIY it.

It would be easy enough to figure out which elements are in Part C based on an ICP comparison of plain saltwater mix, compared to another test with Part C added. The difficult part would be to determine which specific chemicals were added and in what quantities. ICP results list elements, not chemicals, except PO4. I think that would require more expensive analysis. Magnesium and potassium are mentioned.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I would think they'd leave out the calcium chloride dihydrate (Part A), Sodium carbonate/sodium bicarbonate (Part B) and sodium chloride salt. I'm wondering why they don't list the "everything else" just to give people a warm fuzzy. I'm sure their competitors have already analyzed it anyway, and I doubt it's all that cheap for a hobbyist to collect all the individual components to DIY it.

It would be easy enough to figure out which elements are in Part C based on an ICP comparison of plain saltwater mix, compared to another test with Part C added. The difficult part would be to determine which specific chemicals were added and in what quantities. ICP results list elements, not chemicals, except PO4. I think that would require more expensive analysis. Magnesium and potassium are mentioned.

They have very clearly said it contains everything in seawater in many discussions with them. There’s no mystery to solve here, IMO, aside from the alk and calcium possibility.
 

rtparty

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The only listed ingredients are magnesium and potassium. Lou has stated it contains all 70 trace elements found in seawater as well. I have a hard time believing that part.

How much vanadium, selenium, fluoride, sulfate, iron, iodine, etc etc etc are they adding to the mix? Or are they just relying on impurities for all these elements?
 

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How much vanadium, selenium, fluoride, sulfate, iron, iodine, etc etc etc are they adding to the mix? Or are they just relying on impurities for all these elements?
Out of curiosity if the description states sodium chloride free salt:
1738439820114.jpeg


Why do you think it is impurities?

I just don’t think they will state concentration of all 70 trace elements? What would be the purpose?

My understanding is part C is to make sea salt water when combined with PartA and PartB sodium chloride.
 

rtparty

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Out of curiosity if the description states sodium chloride free salt:
1738439820114.jpeg


Why do you think it is impurities?

I just don’t think they will state concentration of all 70 trace elements? What would be the purpose?

My understanding is part C is to make sea salt water when combined with PartA and PartB sodium chloride.

Are they actually adding those trace elements? That’s my question. If so, why not include it in the ingredient list? “Sea salt” is completely ambiguous IMO with way too much room for interpretation.
 

Pod_01

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Are they actually adding those trace elements? That’s my question. If so, why not include it in the ingredient list? “Sea salt” is completely ambiguous IMO with way too much room for interpretation.
I don’t think they list all trace elements on their sea salt either:

1738452283327.jpeg


Just out of curiosity I looked up ESV B-Ionic calcium buffer and they also do not identify what is inside:
1738452571574.jpeg


Is there actually a manufacturer that provides the level of detail?
Just curious…
 

rtparty

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I don’t think they list all trace elements on their sea salt either:

1738452283327.jpeg


Just out of curiosity I looked up ESV B-Ionic calcium buffer and they also do not identify what is inside:
1738452571574.jpeg


Is there actually a manufacturer that provides the level of detail?
Just curious…

The salt clearly states all major and minor elements. Then says 70 trace elements.

Why doesn’t the part C say all 70 trace elements?
 

Pod_01

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There’s no alk or calcium in 1.027 s/g Balling Part C. I just tested this.
I am definitely not understanding the importance of alk and calcium in part C. I figured it was in Part A and Part B…
Oh and I thought I finally figured out the 2/3 part methods… the ionic balance and all.
 

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I am definitely not understanding the importance of alk and calcium in part C. I figured it was in Part A and Part B…
Oh and I thought I finally figured out the 2/3 part methods… the ionic balance and all.
No no. Balling Part C doesn’t contain alk or calcium. You got it right: it’s in part A and B.
 

Pod_01

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The salt clearly states all major and minor elements. Then says 70 trace elements.

Why doesn’t the part C say all 70 trace elements?
The salt states there are 70 trace elements, it doesn’t tell you what they are.

I had the impression you wanted to know what they are and concentration:
How much vanadium, selenium, fluoride, sulfate, iron, iodine, etc etc etc are they adding to the mix? Or are they just relying on impurities for all these elements?

But good question, hopefully TM can clarify how many major and minor elements there are. I suspect TM may not update the label or official description any time soon.

I been reminded by Randy and few others it is good to know what we add in the tank.
But, I been known to dose peptides and magic crystals in the past :thinking-face: .
 

Pod_01

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No no. Balling Part C doesn’t contain alk or calcium. You got it right: it’s in part A and B.
I do understand the partA and PartB. But you mentioned checking alk and Calcium in Part C and Randy mentioned it as well.

I am just not understanding why it was mentioned, why would you check for it? Why is Alk or calcium even discussed with Part C.

I need to re read all the articles on 2/3 part systems for the 10th time :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:, obviously I am slow on the uptake.

Is it to figure out if there is 70 elements in there :zany-face:… obviously it’s been a long day and the brain is fried.
 

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The salt states there are 70 trace elements, it doesn’t tell you what they are.

I had the impression you wanted to know what they are and concentration:


But good question, hopefully TM can clarify how many major and minor elements there are. I suspect TM may not update the label or official description any time soon.

I been reminded by Randy and few others it is good to know what we add in the tank.
But, I been known to dose peptides and magic crystals in the past :thinking-face: .

I’m not looking for actual concentrations of each as no manufacturer does this for any of the salts but it would be nice to see clarification that those “other” 70 elements are in Part C.

From what I understand, when any of these companies make a salt mix they rely on “impurities” to bring in a lot of the trace elements found in a complete mix. This is why it’s never a consistent amount of all the traces like it is for calcium, for example. One salt may be shooting for calcium to be at 440ppm. But I don’t know of any salt that is actively shooting for 2ppm fluoride (enter random element and concentration.) Most are getting trace elements as an impurity in another raw chemical they add.

Maybe I misunderstood the individual I talked to about making salt for our systems or all of them may just have different ways of getting to the end goal
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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The only listed ingredients are magnesium and potassium. Lou has stated it contains all 70 trace elements found in seawater as well. I have a hard time believing that part.

How much vanadium, selenium, fluoride, sulfate, iron, iodine, etc etc etc are they adding to the mix? Or are they just relying on impurities for all these elements?

They also clearly claim it leaves a seawater ion ratio when I have discussed with them.

My expectation is that it’s made just like salt mix, without sodium chloride. That seems easy for a salt mix manufacturer.
 

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I’m not looking for actual concentrations of each as no manufacturer does this for any of the salts but it would be nice to see clarification that those “other” 70 elements are in Part C.

From what I understand, when any of these companies make a salt mix they rely on “impurities” to bring in a lot of the trace elements found in a complete mix. This is why it’s never a consistent amount of all the traces like it is for calcium, for example. One salt may be shooting for calcium to be at 440ppm. But I don’t know of any salt that is actively shooting for 2ppm fluoride (enter random element and concentration.) Most are getting trace elements as an impurity in another raw chemical they add.

Maybe I misunderstood the individual I talked to about making salt for our systems or all of them may just have different ways of getting to the end goal
When they say it contains 70 elements in that description they are likely referring to their complete balling method overall. Not just in part C. Notice they reference the Alk and Calc parts as well in that description. Not 70 elements just in part C. That is how I read it….
 

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From what I understand, when any of these companies make a salt mix they rely on “impurities” to bring in a lot of the trace elements found in a complete mix. This is why it’s never a consistent amount of all the traces like it is for calcium, for example. One salt may be shooting for calcium to be at 440ppm. But I don’t know of any salt that is actively shooting for 2ppm fluoride (enter random element and concentration.) Most are getting trace elements as an impurity in another raw chemical they add.
Maybe this helps, I recall TM and Hans has made comments on this topic few times…

Hi, I am Hans-Werner Balling and I am doing the R&D at Tropic Marin. I have published a few articles about consumption and functions of trace elements.

We add all trace elements that are in seawater to our sea salt mixes in natural concentrations, also if no biological function is proven.

I recall Red Sea salt may work the way you describe for some of the traces. I am basing it on what I read but may have incorrect interpretation:
1738507279140.jpeg

Salt is from Red Sea and comes with 45 trace elements…

I am not chemist but from reading Randy article’s I suspect there is bit of effort to make proper salt mix.
 

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