Is carbon necessary for longevity with Triton?

[nicsound]

I have always run carbon for brief periods to clarify the water or when my other (more sensitive) half complains of sea smells.

My only experience is of running a small amount passively (half a cup in a 200 gallon system), although I do use Vertex Rox 0.8 and it is relatively impassive as the flow through the bag is quite high but have ensured no tumbling occurs.

My main worry is that on 3 occasions over 2 years I left the bag in for longer (2 weeks to a month) and each time it has resulted in my Alleni damsels suffering holes in their heads. They have tiny pores on the top of their heads which are normally hardly visible but without fail open up into gaping sores.

The first time, the holes persisted for weeks despite heavy water changes etc. and I thought I would lose them until I discovered the carbon. They are an otherwise very healthy and happy pair and the holes close up within days of removing the carbon.

I do not understand it or why it appears to effect only them and couldn't say if it was the carbon directly or something vital that it was removing or even some other mechanism I have no knowledge of but there is a definite link, hence my interest in type and methods that others recommend.

Would be very interested to see some results using ICP-OES as far as what different kinds of carbons remove and at what rate. Might have a go myself once I'm settled into the method a little and have everything stable.

I'd guess Ehsan must have tested this already as he recommends a specific triton carbon for its particular properties but I wonder if he would share the results, beyond his being the best one to use.

Regards,
Nic

P.s. Why do my posts always end up being epics. I just can't stop typing..

 

[HuskerTank]

Yes very true, it is hard to know. Mostly sps and lps. Polyp extension was much better as well.

 

[HuskerTank]

Given that carbon will be removing proteins and other organic compounds, I don't think icp will be helpful since majority of that would be carbon and nitrogenous compounds that are not in the form of nitrates.

I have always run carbon for brief periods to clarify the water or when my other (more sensitive) half complains of sea smells.

My only experience is of running a small amount passively (half a cup in a 200 gallon system), although I do use Vertex Rox 0.8 and it is relatively impassive as the flow through the bag is quite high but have ensured no tumbling occurs.

My main worry is that on 3 occasions over 2 years I left the bag in for longer (2 weeks to a month) and each time it has resulted in my Alleni damsels suffering holes in their heads. They have tiny pores on the top of their heads which are normally hardly visible but without fail open up into gaping sores.

The first time, the holes persisted for weeks despite heavy water changes etc. and I thought I would lose them until I discovered the carbon. They are an otherwise very healthy and happy pair and the holes close up within days of removing the carbon.

I do not understand it or why it appears to effect only them and couldn't say if it was the carbon directly or something vital that it was removing or even some other mechanism I have no knowledge of but there is a definite link, hence my interest in type and methods that others recommend.

Would be very interested to see some results using ICP-OES as far as what different kinds of carbons remove and at what rate. Might have a go myself once I'm settled into the method a little and have everything stable.

I'd guess Ehsan must have tested this already as he recommends a specific triton carbon for its particular properties but I wonder if he would share the results, beyond his being the best one to use.

Regards,
Nic

P.s. Why do my posts always end up being epics. I just can't stop typing..

 

[Gareth elliott]

This only kinda relates to to the iodine but the Pacific northwest national laboratory. Tested iodine129 and iodate sorption by gac in an attempt to see its ability to the remove radioactive material from Hanford groundwater. The findings were that gac was inefficient for removing iodine 129 and even less efficient for iodate most efficient for iodide was speculated. Now this is a different species than we keep in our aquariums and im not a chemists to know if that would make a difference.
Full study
https://www.pnnl.gov/main/publications/external/technical_reports/PNNL-23730.pdf

 

[BigJohnny]

Well, I wish triton would respond to this lol. Got a lot of other hits.....

 

[BigJohnny]

Ohhhhh triton

 

[BigJohnny]

@Tim@Triton

Would love to hear from you guys on this. I don't like running carbon.

 

[HB AL]

I run Kent marine carbon 24/7 and have no issues. All corals and fish are very healthy, I don't see any negative affects. What are you afraid is gonna happen? Here's a pic of my tank showing no ill affects.

 

[BigJohnny]

I run Kent marine carbon 24/7 and have no issues. All corals and fish are very healthy, I don't see any negative affects. What are you afraid is gonna happen? Here's a pic of my tank showing no ill affects.

HOLY MOLY that's a big wrasse (red coris?)!

Thanks for sharing. If only everything that worked for one person worked for everyone! We all have unique systems. I've had rtn on acropora several times when running carbon in the past. I also like to keep things simple so I'd rather not add one more thing to maintain.

 

[BigJohnny]

I did some more research and by changing my search words in Google I found a thread where someone claimed "I confirmed with Tim that carbon is as needed and not required"

Now does that mean when something goes wrong, when water gets yellow, etc? Depends on how you define as needed.

If only @Tim@Triton actually used Reef2reef lol.

 

[Gareth elliott]

Could always buy a mesh bag, some purigen. And if notice a change in light penetration throw in the sump. Remove 24 hours later. Recharge in some bleach, dry out, reuse when issue returns. This way not investing in a full gac reactor and get “the as needed effect”. If really needed.

 

[Gareth elliott]

Could always buy a mesh bag, some purigen. And if notice a change in light penetration throw in the sump. Remove 24 hours later. Recharge in some bleach, dry out, reuse when issue returns. This way not investing in a full gac reactor and get “the as needed effect”. If really needed.

Purigen because works efficiently in a bag, compared to gac.

Edit:Meant to hit edit not reply lol

 

[BigJohnny]

Could always buy a mesh bag, some purigen. And if notice a change in light penetration throw in the sump. Remove 24 hours later. Recharge in some bleach, dry out, reuse when issue returns. This way not investing in a full gac reactor and get “the as needed effect”. If really needed.

Thanks for the suggestion. I use kz coral snow to clear any discoloration in the water but rarely ever need to use, once every 2 months probably. I wouldn't use carbon for that personally, although its certainly good for that.

I ran into issues when I used rox in a reactor on my old tank, and also rox in a bag in my new tank. I've considered running 1/4th the amount rox in a bag (already half of what brs recommends) or a weaker carbon. I know many reefers who have had issues with rox but I have some and don't really feel like buying carbon. I'm just so gun shy either way.

 

[Gareth elliott]

Maybe you can ask brs to pull it out of the 160 and see if they see any changes [emoji23]

 

[Tim2@Triton]

@BigJohnny don't you know you have to say Tim@Triton 3 times in a row to summon one of us?

Carbon is your friend, don't be scared of carbon. Like any friend its great to have carbon around, but when carbon hangs out too long and starts referring to your couch as it's bed, its worn out it's welcome.

 

[BigJohnny]

@BigJohnny don't you know you have to say Tim@Triton 3 times in a row to summon one of us?

Carbon is your friend, don't be scared of carbon. Like any friend its great to have carbon around, but when carbon hangs out too long and starts referring to your couch as it's bed, its worn out it's welcome.

That's your response after me waiting for 3 months lol? A simile? Maybe I'll just go pour my core7 down the drain, oh wait, it already leaked on the floor ; )

How can I not be scared of something that has led to rtn of some acropora in the past? What type of carbon is triton carbon? Do you recommend running it 24/7 or as needed like someone said one of the tims told him, and if so, what do you consider as needed? What is your primarily goal in running carbon?

Have you guys run triton systems without carbon long term? Do you believe it's required for long term success without water changes?

Thanks.......

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This only kinda relates to to the iodine but the Pacific northwest national laboratory. Tested iodine129 and iodate sorption by gac in an attempt to see its ability to the remove radioactive material from Hanford groundwater. The findings were that gac was inefficient for removing iodine 129 and even less efficient for iodate most efficient for iodide was speculated. Now this is a different species than we keep in our aquariums and im not a chemists to know if that would make a difference.
Full study
https://www.pnnl.gov/main/publications/external/technical_reports/PNNL-23730.pdf

I know this is old, but it will be much worse in reef tank water because there is far more to compete with the iodide and iodate absorption.

So folks should not be under the impression that GAC takes out a lot of inorganic iodine from reef tanks. I think the "myth" that it does probably arose from the common assessment of "iodine number" which is the amount of I2 that binds to carbon when nothing else is present. It is used as a measure of surface area of GAC.

I2 is not the form in seawater, and there are lots of other things to bind in place of it.

 

[Tim2@Triton]

@BigJohnny my apologies for the simile, it was an attempt at levity.

Through our internal testing we have found running activated carbon is beneficial to the system by removing unwanted chemicals. I've reached out to the lab for more details regarding carbon type, and will present that info once it becomes available.

Speaking from my experience, I intermittently use carbon. I use it when I see a tint in the water, and when my clams/snails spawn every 2 months or so with the goal of removing organics from the water. I very likely could get away with not using the carbon to remove spawn as it is food for the tank's invertebrates, but nearly two decades of professionally maintaining tanks makes it really hard to walk away from a cloudy tank.

 

[BigJohnny]

@BigJohnny my apologies for the simile, it was an attempt at levity.

Through our internal testing we have found running activated carbon is beneficial to the system by removing unwanted chemicals. I've reached out to the lab for more details regarding carbon type, and will present that info once it becomes available.

Speaking from my experience, I intermittently use carbon. I use it when I see a tint in the water, and when my clams/snails spawn every 2 months or so with the goal of removing organics from the water. I very likely could get away with not using the carbon to remove spawn as it is food for the tank's invertebrates, but nearly two decades of professionally maintaining tanks makes it really hard to walk away from a cloudy tank.

Haha no need to apologize I enjoyed it, I was just expecting more. So you only use it when the water is tinted or cloudy, not necessarily to protect the tank from other "unwanted chemicals"?

Yes please let me know what the lab says about the carbon. Thanks

 

[BigJohnny]

Cool thanks lol