Is complaining about the cost of aquarium equipment fair when you do this?

Complaining about the cost of aquarium equipment when you pay large sums of money for coral & fish..

  • is Fair

    Votes: 278 52.0%
  • is Not Fair

    Votes: 214 40.0%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 43 8.0%

  • Total voters
    535

RobB'z Reef

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
2,783
Reaction score
5,772
Location
Eau Claire
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
interesting question! I'm only generalizing, and of course with questions like these, each of us is just presenting a perspective as there is truly no right or wrong answer to an opinion pol, cuz opinions are like ******** (chime in the cheeky answer). Pricing is complex but it might be fair to say above and beyond COGS (cost of goods sold) there are reasonable and expected profits (capitalism isn't charity folks). With equipment you'll definitely see some mark up attributed to name brand marketing, we see that everywhere outside the hobby. You want Apple? You'll pay apple prices. I think with corals and fish you tend to see more of a supply and demand with marketing. Whether those corals are truly rare might not always hold true but either way we are being told they are and I doubt it actually costs more to propagate them over other corals in their class.
In the end the consumer makes the decision to spend or not. We can always send the message 'we're not paying your asking price' by not participating. None of us HAVE to have a given thing in this context. I love corals but personally won't play that game of positional good by saying i spent an absurd amount of money on something everyone else wants and can't get. Nor will I spend a lot of money and then complain about after the fact, cuz the answer to that is looking back at me in the mirror. If we let them sit on the shelves long enough, they might come down in price or if more hobbyists start propagating and not price gouge maybe things can get better? Hard to say. I'd like a million dollar house, but complaining about it won't get me one faster haha. I get what i can within my means. or change that if I want something bad enough.
I appreciate all the different view points in this forum tho!
 

kaceyo

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
261
Reaction score
143
Location
Seattle
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I think they are two separate issues entirely. The amount you're willing to pay for a particular coral has nothing to do with whether or not a piece of equipment used to support that coral is worth the asked price. Sure, you don't have to buy it, but a discussion about it's cost/value is is completely appropriate.
 

New&no clue

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 11, 2019
Messages
3,541
Reaction score
12,173
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Of course it is fair to complain... why would I do it if I can't complain about it?

And I agree I complain equally about all cost. I complain about how much the coral I want cost, or the fish. I complain that the plow guys want to charge more for walkways, I complain about how expensive my kids shoes are, I complain about the price of a new microwave after I melted the old one.

Complaining.gif


I think by nature people like to complain, it makes them feel better, like they're not complacent
 

RobB'z Reef

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
2,783
Reaction score
5,772
Location
Eau Claire
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
At its core the word "complaining", whether you use it as an adjective or a noun, is defined as an expression. Humans express their emotions, thoughts, opinions, frustrations, needs, desires, wants in a multitude of ways. One of these ways is through online forums like this one, with a group of like-minded hobbyists, through which, share a common language that most non-reefers don't understand.

In sum: To express is human, to complain is to express, thus, complaining is part of being human, therefore those of us that complain are just humans appropriately vetting our frustrations as a normal routine of keeping our emotional selves in homeostasis.
humans are the worst lol!

great thoughts
 

Crustaceon

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
2,444
Reaction score
3,357
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I think it’s fair because when people will pay crazy money for equipment or livestock, it makes even basic equivalents of high end equipment and livestock more expensive for everyone else who don’t have that kind of money lying around. This hobby has a lot in common with golf. Some people like to spend $400 on a driver, but is that club REALLY worth that much? From a material perspective, no. It’s mostly a combination of r&d costs and marketing, which is really expensive when you’re trying to target a wealthy demographic. It’s not like marketing potato chips, which everyone will buy anyways and won’t care too much about a commercial’s production value. This is the mentality that makes everything else associated with golf expensive. It’s the perceived “eliteness” of the game. To the uninitiated, a saltwater & especially a reef tank is perceived the same way and that notion is backed up by people’s willingness to spend $900 + for 24” of led light coverage. This makes everything in the hobby pricier across the board. It’s basically a “pay to play” 50% markup.
 

sp1187

bird flu antidote
View Badges
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
13,345
Reaction score
69,067
Location
the duck blind
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Like I told all five kids when they was growing up and would complain about something....

"Get used to disappointment and learn to like it."

I just wonder sometimes how new people don't run away when they see some of the prices on equipment they are told are "gotta have" and live stock they may want.
 

waterskiguy

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
265
Reaction score
248
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Like anything in life. If you don't like the price, don't buy the merchandise. Most of the time, there is a Chinese knockoff for less money anyway. Complaining about price doesn't help anything.
 

backdraft_reefer

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
120
Reaction score
162
Location
Charleston
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I am firmly with the belief that you get what you pay for....especially in this hobby. Generally speaking, more expensive equipment is more reliable and will be more cost effective in the long run. When it comes to coral and fish, specimens that have been QT'd properly and/or grown in a system long enough are going to be more expensive, but are far less likely to bring in pest and disease. Trying to combat those will cost far more than just paying for healthy livestock to begin with IMHO.
 

Greybeard

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
3,231
Reaction score
8,668
Location
Buffalo, MO
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I get pretty tired of the cost subject... but here goes.

This is a hobby. You can spend as much as you want to on ANY hobby... that's what makes it a hobby, something for you to sink your excess time and money into.

Expensive? You can pick up used gear for pennies on the dollar, all day long. Huge percentage of new reefers drop the hobby in the first year, so there's an endless supply of fairly new gear for sale cheap.

A 30 second local Craigslist search turns up a 125g marine setup, tank, stand, canopy, lighting, sump... entire package, $300. Unless you live in outer Mongolia, I'd expect Craigslist or FB Marketplace will turn up something similar in your area.

If you're willing to buy used gear, you can get into this hobby CHEAP.

Don't want to buy used? Want something SPECIFIC?

Take my 60x30x18" custom peninsula, on a custom steel stand, with high end lighting (Aquticlife Hybrid + 2x Kessel AP700's), a beautiful Bashsea sump... Full blown Apex system, with DOS, Trident, Tunze flow pumps... You get the idea.

Yeah. I paid a bundle. BUT... that was my choice. It's my hobby, sitting in my living room. I did not spend my rent money on the tank, didn't go into debt, didn't spend my kids lunch money, or even dig into my retirement account. It's MY money, I'll do what I want with it, thanks.

Picked up a Kawasaki Mule Pro FX SE EPS a month or so ago... on a lark, really... I don't think my aquarium has exceeded the $13,000.00 that toy cost me.

Expensive? I'm a firearms enthusiast. I'll guarantee you, the sum total of my reef hobby doesn't come anywhere near competing with the money in my gun room. Fortunately for me, firearms hold their value much better than reef gear does :)

Talk to a serious golfer... see what he spends a year on that hobby. Humph. Talk to anyone involved in motorsports of any sort... no way those folks are going to think reefing is expensive. Go talk to someone looking at getting a sport pilot license and picking up an ultralight :D

Reefing is a hobby. You CAN spend as much as you want too... and there's always going to be vendors catering to those that have the money to spend.

An Aqueon 75g tank and stand from Petco, a Sunblaze T5 fixture, some wave pumps from Amazon, rock from a local tear down, used RODI unit, a bucket of IO, and some free frags from your local reefing club...

You CAN do this on the cheap. Many of us choose not too.

Aren't you glad you have the choice?

Back when I started, all the cool gear was only available in Europe!
 

Ippyroy

Defeater of Dinos
View Badges
Joined
Nov 19, 2019
Messages
5,504
Reaction score
33,186
Location
West Yellowstone
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I work in a small tourist town right outside of Yellowstone National Park. The hotels I work at are pricey. We average 300 bucks a night during the summer season. People complain all the time about the price. We are within 5 minutes of the West Gate into the park. Millions of people come through here every year and want to stay.The mortgages or rent on these buildings are very high. Location plays a huge part in that. Fiber internet costs thousands each month. Same thing, we are hours away from everything other than the park. Food costs more to have it delivered. We are also one of the 2 coldest cities in the 48 states. Property taxes are super high. The city is growing and infrastructure has to be built, maintained, and repaired. We have to make enough money in the Summer to maintain the town during the Winter when we are losing money and keep employees on the payroll. The owners of these establishments are not wealthy people. They all work hard to keep them going. All of this plus supply and demand dictate the prices. If you can't afford it, then don't come.
The same thing with reef tanks and any hobby. I have seen more griping about the prices of things in this hobby than any other. Yet, at the same time I have so many people on here that spend a lot less and make it work great. There are so many beatiful budget reefs out there. People should stop complaining about the price and figure something else out.
My other hobbies include fly fishing and mountain biking. I have spent thousands on bikes. I could have gotten cheaper ones but they are the ones I want for different reasons. I buy mid range fly rods. I am happy there is a mid range. You don't have to have the latest and greatest to be happy and successful. Not everyone drives a Ferrari to work, yet, they still get to work.
 

ReefGeezer

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
1,972
Reaction score
2,849
Location
Wichita, KS
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I struggle with the cost of this hobby. High end corals and new equipment are not necessarily beyond my means, but they are normally beyond my budget. My other hobby, The "hole in the water that I pour money in" (boat), limits the cash available for this one. I do have fairly high end equipment. I bought it all used though.

There just aren't that many Reefers, so the market is limited regardless of price-point. Low volume/high margin sales models are prevalent throughout the hobby because of this. Complaining is a coping method for me. I doubt my complaints will ever provide any incentive for companies to drop their prices though. As long as the P&L of these companies prove the sales model, prices won't fall.
 

Rick.45cal

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
3,693
Reaction score
9,210
Location
Lakeland Florida
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I think lots of people’s hobby these days is actually just complaining.

Also talking about what things “used to cost” is pointless... you used to be able to get a sandwich for $.05, and a haircut for 2 bits. Times have changed, welcome to the global marketplace.
 

msjboy

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 3, 2020
Messages
38
Reaction score
25
Location
Vancouver
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Salterwater reefing is not the worlds most popular hobby and therefore inorder for it to survive for those manufacturers & its staff, products are way more expensive than say a keurig coffee maker which sells boatloads. Secondly, fuel prices ( even before covid) for shipping, for the coral /fish grower , inflation, regulation ( eg indonesian was banned for 3 -4 years so less livestorck) less livestock like global warming of Great Barrier Reef, all adds up to cost and the aquacultured stuff grown in North America, well it's no longer paid in Asian salaries.
 

mrpizzaface

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 6, 2017
Messages
721
Reaction score
812
Location
Queens
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Based on the threads whining about the costs of hard goods and livestock, and The threads that are free giveaways, I was under the impression that this forum existed to create advertising revenue while offering a platform for complainers.
 

fishnovice33

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
33
Reaction score
34
Location
Midwest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I think what some people don't understand is all the work and handling that goes into a product. The research, design, production, packaging, distribution ect... All those steps need to be paid, and make a profit. They're not going to do stuff for free or to break even.
When I worked at an auto parts supply chain, we had a seminar about oil filters.
The guy at the seminar said if we could get oil filters direct off the line, they could sell them for 50 cents and still make a profit. But when you factor in the amount of hands an item needs to go through, the numbers start jumping. The filter goes from production to a truck, that truck has to get paid, from that truck they go to packaging. Packaging company has to get paid, from packaging it goes on another truck, that truck needs to get paid, then it goes to the distribution center. Distribution center has to get paid, then they truck it out to the stores, truck for that has to get paid, and then the final markup at the retail store. So now your 50 cent oil filter now costs upwards of 10 to 15 dollars.
Many people don't factor any of that in when considering the price of an item.
Just my thoughts and opinions ya'll are free to disagree, but I don't usually complain about prices of items too much with this knowledge. If I don't like the price I simply look for an alternate or I don't purchase it.

Agreed. You always hear complainers say things like ‘how much did this even cost to make’? That’s a very narrow minded view. We don’t buy really anything for how much it costs to make.

I have a garden and grow my own veggies. The time and materials it costs even with recycling compost and building my own containers comes out to buying it from a mass producer. Especially considering seasonal harvests unless I sink even more money into an indoor or sheltered grow room with controlled climate.

Even then it’s hard to compete, profit, or get ahead. The time, research and attention are not even considered as items you can put a monetary value on. In the end you do it for personal enjoyment and satisfaction.

We have access to so many information outlets that allow you to compare prices or build it or grow it yourself. Most people don’t want to put in the time, and at the same time, don’t want to pay someone else willing to put in the time. That’s where the issues and irony is.

If you don’t want to put in the time yourself and don’t want to pay someone else to put in the time yourself, don’t complain. Otherwise learn to do it yourself or find a way to make money. I doordashed for 3 months on top of my job to afford a vacation...there are ways to do it granted none of them are as easy as complaining.
 

Mastering the art of locking and unlocking water pathways: What type of valves do you have on your aquarium plumbing?

  • Ball valves.

    Votes: 68 52.3%
  • Gate valves.

    Votes: 67 51.5%
  • Check valves.

    Votes: 33 25.4%
  • None.

    Votes: 29 22.3%
  • Other.

    Votes: 9 6.9%
Back
Top