Is complaining about the cost of aquarium equipment fair when you do this?

[Mastiffsrule]

If I want to complain about wearing a....

Oops, sorry wrong thread. ;Woot I complain about everything and anything, otherwise I would have nothing to say.

Hobby prices are what they are. Don’t complain about the price. Complain about having to save for it, not being able to afford it at the moment, or maybe never being able to get it. Things that we have to Go thru do not necessarily give justification to complain about a price of the item.

That said I need a LED bar for my 180. A plain actinic bar is $499. I can get an entire box for that. Come on

 

[BkReefBaby]

At work when some one asks how’s it going? We usually say “I could complain but no one wants to listen”. Complaining gets you no where! Everything in this hobby is expensive. This isn’t the only expensive hobby out there! I’m into fitness and supplements and healthy food is expensive im Also into motorcycles that’s another expensive hobby! It what it is and I love them all!

 

[Sebastiancrab]

I have worked in manufacturing and distribution so I have experience with costing. As a newbie studying the equipment, the pricing of things overall has shocked me. I find it inconceivable that the majority of the skimmers, for example, are worth a retail price of $150 up. When you compare them to a canister filter or a regular filter with a pump (or an even more expensive pump), the components are not that different!
I was talking to a vendor recently about rock. He told me that the plain dead rock we buy is mined in Florida for PENNIES a pound. I also had a supplier tell me recently that many of the sellers have banded together to charge fixed prices for items. So, yes, I do think on many items, they are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Lota Reefer]

I pay large sums for surgery but not a sticky plaster. There is a market mechanism designed to enhance competition and value to the consumer. It is the consumers job to drive pricing and innovation from manufacturers. If sellers want to dictate the price based off other purchases made but their target market, ad above they are way off and should start employing professionals who have expertise and education in marketing.

 

[Back where it all began]

While I agree that complaining about prices is not productive or perhaps responsible given that this is a hobby; there is one angle that I would like tompoint out. As companies develop more different types of technology , or improve existing technology, the price shifts up of course. This then drives other prices on other goods upwards. The consumer will make a decision to purchase at the new price or not. Capitalism of course. The only challenge with this model is that prices can become quickly inflated as more “ improved” products hit the market and the customer will have to pay a higher price even for a lesser good. You are right, the person can simply walk away, but for those of us in the hobby, it does create a self perpetuating price increase pattern that may be outstripping the “real” value of the item. Again, value is what you deem it to be, but overall baseline price increases can make the hobby challenging.

 

[dbowman5]

i guess i am weird. i was talking about the job one time and was pretty juiced about how great it was. my listener said "they don't deserve you". i was startled, here i was bragging about the great job and how i was helping to get things done, i thought. i mentally scrolled back over the stories i had been telling only to realize that it sounded like one big bellyaching session. since then i realize that if i am complaining it is a form of bragging for me. "I can't believe how much this cost me" is code for 'look at how much i was able to spend., look at the cool thing i have now" so yeah i complain some but i am not necessarily wanting anything to be different. now you know...

 

[musicreef]

For me it's the other way around. I usually complain about the exorbitant prices being asked these days for tiny coral frags and fish that may or may not make it past the first feeding attempt. I'll pay a premium for quality equipment that will allow my average fish and coral to not just survive but thrive. Quality equipment will usually will last a lot longer.

 

[hubcap]

All i know is I should build my own LED lighting.
Its really not that hard if you know how to do it.
LEDs in the right wavelength from CREE or Philips ($1/per LED....ish)
An LED driver circuit. (easy with the right knowledge)
An aluminum layered board to mount the LEDs to. (electrically correct with heatsinking capabilities....FA4 or perfboard wouldn't work due to heat from the LED junctions)
A heatsink. A fan. And a power cord.

Prolly a total of $200 (on the high end) in parts/materials.
Granted it wouldnt look as "pretty" as some lights out there, cuz, I cant, yet, mill my own housings or shoot my own lexan lenses. But, who cares if its behind a canopy or under a custom hood.

Might just be a DIY thread in the making..........

 

[Back where it all began]

I get pretty tired of the cost subject... but here goes.

This is a hobby. You can spend as much as you want to on ANY hobby... that's what makes it a hobby, something for you to sink your excess time and money into.

Expensive? You can pick up used gear for pennies on the dollar, all day long. Huge percentage of new reefers drop the hobby in the first year, so there's an endless supply of fairly new gear for sale cheap.

A 30 second local Craigslist search turns up a 125g marine setup, tank, stand, canopy, lighting, sump... entire package, $300. Unless you live in outer Mongolia, I'd expect Craigslist or FB Marketplace will turn up something similar in your area.

If you're willing to buy used gear, you can get into this hobby CHEAP.

Don't want to buy used? Want something SPECIFIC?

Take my 60x30x18" custom peninsula, on a custom steel stand, with high end lighting (Aquticlife Hybrid + 2x Kessel AP700's), a beautiful Bashsea sump... Full blown Apex system, with DOS, Trident, Tunze flow pumps... You get the idea.

Yeah. I paid a bundle. BUT... that was my choice. It's my hobby, sitting in my living room. I did not spend my rent money on the tank, didn't go into debt, didn't spend my kids lunch money, or even dig into my retirement account. It's MY money, I'll do what I want with it, thanks.

Picked up a Kawasaki Mule Pro FX SE EPS a month or so ago... on a lark, really... I don't think my aquarium has exceeded the $13,000.00 that toy cost me.

Expensive? I'm a firearms enthusiast. I'll guarantee you, the sum total of my reef hobby doesn't come anywhere near competing with the money in my gun room. Fortunately for me, firearms hold their value much better than reef gear does

Talk to a serious golfer... see what he spends a year on that hobby. Humph. Talk to anyone involved in motorsports of any sort... no way those folks are going to think reefing is expensive. Go talk to someone looking at getting a sport pilot license and picking up an ultralight

Reefing is a hobby. You CAN spend as much as you want too... and there's always going to be vendors catering to those that have the money to spend.

An Aqueon 75g tank and stand from Petco, a Sunblaze T5 fixture, some wave pumps from Amazon, rock from a local tear down, used RODI unit, a bucket of IO, and some free frags from your local reefing club...

You CAN do this on the cheap. Many of us choose not too.

Aren't you glad you have the choice?

Back when I started, all the cool gear was only available in Europe!

Harley Davidson superglide custom for me. 1700cc,700lbs and ran like the wind when I lived in Az.

 

[GuppyHJD]

Having been away from the hobby for over 12 yrs, and now trying to get back into the hobby, I am surprised at the prices of much of the equipment now. It is disappointing to see alot of the brands seem to have left the industry. There are new brands that seem to try and confuse their pricing by selling products using different measurements so it is difficult to compare brand A to brand B.
For me, the pricing has forced me to set my sights on a smaller system than I had planned and to be patient, so I can purchase used equipment. Since my system will be 1/3rd smaller than originally targeted, I have started crossing fish and corals off my stocking list.

 

[Crustaceon]

Imagine how many people would get into this hobby if equipment and livestock cost half of what it does. I’ve talked to many LFS and you know where their bread and butter comes from? Freshwater sales. Think of the family that walks into a lfs store and is given a grocery list of must-haves. The total is probably around $300-500. They pass and move on to the freshwater aisle and end up dropping $100 on stuff. It’s way cheaper to get into that, so that’s where people go. It’s also a prime reason why saltwater is more expensive. Less demand = higher price. If the prices came down and became reasonable for the average buyer, the demand would increase and we’d see a stabilization in those prices.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Cost of living has increased dramatically in the past ten years for EVERYTHING! And wages have stagnated.

I believe complaining has little to do with any effort to persuade businesses to lower prices. It's like yelling into a running fan on high speed. Does nothing.

This hobby has never been cheap for as long as I've been in it.

 

[Thaxxx]

I don't pay for over priced equipment or corals. The whole hobby has gotten stupid expensive and people are out there price gouging to their little hearts desire.

I think this is what most in the hobby are thinking. Even if they don't know for a fact coral prices are a gouge. You believe they are. So we complain.
It's as much about your perception of profit being made as it is the price.

 

[DSEKULA]

This is interesting to me, I see many people complain about prices but many times the same people seem to pay them. I believe the complaint is warranted if they get something other than they pay for or pay to upgrade to a perceived better product but find that the cheaper works just as well if not better (for example).
My views on gear are also different though, I professionally design, build, and operate water and wastewater treatment plants. When compared to professional gear most reef gear is way cheaper, for example it's normal to pay $500 to $1500 for a single chemicals feed pump (dosing pump) so I'm auctually always surprised how cheap the components are. As far as payment for livestock, I see it as supply and demand but again if there's a reason a higher price is paid (captive bred, quarentine protocol, guarantee) it should be delivered on. I see these as related but separate parts of the hobby. To me personally when setting up a reef there's an overall budget, a stock portion, and gear portion. If I have to wait for funds I'm likely to put cash twords gear first and wait on stock that way I don't need to make changes later. As far as the specific situation where a high price is paid for stock and then a complaint for gear to keep it alive goes, I believe it depends on the situation. Was the sale made when the seller stated that the stock would be fine in existing conditions then the consumer was told they need to buy something special afterwards to keep it alive? Was it a failure to research? Is it something to make life easier but not necessary?
To me these details make the difference of a legit complaint or someone just running their mouth.

 

[Shaveen]

As long as the price of the equipment is justifiable with the quality and technology it's not a problem. But it does not mean that since people are willing to pay for the corals, that can also pay a higher price for the equipment.

 

[I'm salty]

I think we should all take time to remember the love of the hobby. Most people have a budget and I'm proud of most setups.

 

[Paul B]

I have never really understood what all these people are spending money on. I also don't understand why almost everyone is a Noob just starting out.` What happened to all the tanks that were started many years ago?

After you start a tank and buy the lights, tank, rocks etc. that stuff should last for many years. Rocks don't go bad.
Except for maybe food, I rarely buy anything.

I used to use ASW so I had to buy that but being I only changed some water 4 or 5 times a year, that was cheap. I rarely test anything except maybe alk so that $12.00 kit lasts me over a year.
I buy calcium and alk in bulk which is probably less that fifty bucks a year.

The fish average about 10 years so if a fish is $40.00 and it lives 10 years, it was only four bucks a year, much cheaper than dog food or taking my wife out to lunch.

I also never had any controllers except a $12.00 timer to turn on the lights and that is maybe 20 years old.
I would never quarantine or medicate so I have no need for all of that stuff with extra tanks and all that.

If you feel you need controllers, dosers etc, you can get that stuff used because it seems almost everyone who starts this hobby, gets out in a year or less so used stuff is all over the place.

I feel this hobby can be very rewarding and you can spend as little or as much as you want and still have a great tank.
It is not supposed to be a money pit and throwing money at it is not going to make you more successful, just poor.

Trust me, your fish won't care.

 

[Kjeldh]

The cost for this hobby will always trend upward. Some of my reefer friends have rigid budgets with incredible success (TOM quality) with ten year old equipment. They don't get caught up in the latest and greatest technology, just core tank maintenance principles.

 

[dbowman5]

I have never really understood what all these people are spending money on. I also don't understand why almost everyone is a Noob just starting out.` What happened to all the tanks that were started many years ago?

After you start a tank and buy the lights, tank, rocks etc. that stuff should last for many years. Rocks don't go bad.
Except for maybe food, I rarely buy anything.

I used to use ASW so I had to buy that but being I only changed some water 4 or 5 times a year, that was cheap. I rarely test anything except maybe alk so that $12.00 kit lasts me over a year.
I buy calcium and alk in bulk which is probably less that fifty bucks a year.

The fish average about 10 years so if a fish is $40.00 and it lives 10 years, it was only four bucks a year, much cheaper than dog food or taking my wife out to lunch.

I also never had any controllers except a $12.00 timer to turn on the lights and that is maybe 20 years old.
I would never quarantine or medicate so I have no need for all of that stuff with extra tanks and all that.

If you feel you need controllers, dosers etc, you can get that stuff used because it seems almost everyone who starts this hobby, gets out in a year or less so used stuff is all over the place.

I feel this hobby can be very rewarding and you can spend as little or as much as you want and still have a great tank.
It is not supposed to be a money pit and throwing money at it is not going to make you more successful, just poor.

Trust me, your fish won't care.

I am running a spreadsheet on my expenses and tank history. it has a running total and a daily average of cost to operate including build and upgrade costs. including the cost for things i have yet to use. It does not include electricity or tap water
I have a freshwater tank(75 gal.); it has been up for two years, average $3/day.($2300) I have two SW DT/sump systems, one that is nearing one year(40 gal) , the other seven months(100 gal). the total daily expense for both is $12/day($4400). the averages keep coming down. this is an economical hobby.

 

[KLaRue]

I get the whole “Ferrari vs. Chevy” price and quality ideas. However, to continue the analogy, it’s hard to know which equipment brands/models are Chevy’s and which may actually be Yugo’s. It seems so often, if people don’t buy the high-end equipment, others will post about the inability to keep the corals healthy with those black boxes that’ll end up burning your house down.