Is complaining about the cost of aquarium equipment fair when you do this?

[Mr_Knightley]

I feel as though it's all relative. I do often find myself paying more for livestock though, I wonder why? Maybe it's because that's what I started the hobby for. I'm not sure, though.

 

[bigredreefer91]

I honestly think some coral prices are Insane.. so yes people have the right to complain about the equipment used to keep them alive but something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it

 

[mtnbikeracer76]

I think crying about the cost of upkeep is ridiculous. This is a hobby. You're not being forced to participate. You learned of the cost of the fish alone, didn't really think about the maintenance in the long term, and now complaining about the total cost.


It's like people buying high end used cars and wondering why parts like brake rotors and calipers are 2 to 3 tims more expensive than say a Honda or Toyota.

If you don't think you can afford the upkeep for the long term, then it's probably not for you. That's why I got out of drag racing, and have yet to start my reef build. Can't afford it now.

 

[Paul B]

the total daily expense for both is $12/day($4400). the averages keep coming down. this is an economical hobby.

I still don't get it. Where is that $12.00 a day going to. My tank is fifty years old and 125 gallons, it probably costs me less than a dollar a day including water, food and electricity. I must be doing something wrong.

 

[dbowman5]

I still don't get it. Where is that $12.00 a day going to. My tank is fifty years old and 125 gallons, it probably costs me less than a dollar a day including water, food and electricity. I must be doing something wrong.

i dont spend that much a day it is the total spent divided by the number of days i have had the tanks going. and yes i could have done it cheaper but i am cool with the cost. and am looking for a copy of your book, that cost will be included in the cost of the hobby. i expect to be in your $1/day range in 30 years. including any upgrades.
edit went to the data and found that of the $4400 $2406 was equipment set up costs. the rest is aquascape livestock and consumables.

 

[Paul B]

If you read my book you may only spend 13 cents a day but I am not sure as I haven't read it in a while and I forgot what I wrote.
I think my book is pretty easy to find, most people use it for door stops.

 

[dbowman5]

If you read my book you may only spend 13 cents a day but I am not sure as I haven't read it in a while and I forgot what I wrote.
I think my book is pretty easy to find, most people use it for door stops.

i am sure i could find a copy on amazon but i like the idea of just carrying a brick and when i visit reefers look at the bottom of their doors and make a quick switch. thanks for the tip!

 

[ArmyReefer]

I actually think that the market is growing at such a fast rate that competition is starting to pick up from opposing companies. Which in turn will lower the prices

 

[RobMcC]

I picked other. I don’t think ‘fairness’ comes into it. I chose what to spend my money on. I look at equipment reviews and if the reliability and function meets the price that I think those qualities are worth, then I’ll consider purchasing the item.

That being said, It’s obvious from some posts that some folks have no idea of the cost of doing business, especially where lengthy R&D is involved. If you think you could provide the same quality product for a significantly cheaper price, then you appear to have a winning business model, so go pitch your idea to the bank manager and start that business, otherwise shut up.

Also, for what it’s worth, I see more moaning about coral prices than equipment prices. My views on that are the same. You pay your money, you make your choice. There are lots of options at all price points. You might not get that ‘named’ rainbow tenuis frag for $60, but you can buy several whole Aussie tenuis colony and cook them under intense blue and get the same effect from one of them. With the named frag you know what you are getting. Same with equipment. You can buy cheaper off brand black box lights or a named brand. The cheaper black boxes might not last as long, but then again they might.

 

[mindme]

Like I told all five kids when they was growing up and would complain about something....

"Get used to disappointment and learn to like it."

I just wonder sometimes how new people don't run away when they see some of the prices on equipment they are told are "gotta have" and live stock they may want.

Many new people do run away. I have a friend who has watched me talk about the hobby for over 10 years. He really wants a tank, he can afford a tank, but he just doesn't want to pay the money for it because there is so much more other stuff he can do with the money.

I'm kind of the same way. I rarely spend top end money on things. I keep smaller tanks. I settle for lower priced coral, or I get them on sale. I don't run heavy SPS tanks because I don't want to pay for all the equipment, the high prices for frags, dosing, or any of that. I run skimmers, UV lights and carbon as my main filtration. No controllers, none of that extra stuff.

The prices for the top end stuff are ridiculous. The price differences between the top end stuff and the cheaper things is extreme and goes well beyond what you are getting value wise. Like most things in life, most of the time you are paying extra for the brand name, not for extra quality. Often times, items are made by the exact same people with the exact same parts, they throw 2 brand names on them, charge more for the higher brand name, and then charge less for the lower ones. Why? So they can reach more consumers, and they will just make extra money off those who buy the more expensive item. Haven't seen this exact thing in aquarium equipment as far as I know in terms of 1 company making multiple brands, but the general concept exists where people are paying for brand name more so than extra quality.

So in short, it's the lack of value in the escalated prices that I don't care for. But people pay them and that's why it's never going to change.

There are obviously some exceptions. Some things can be expenisve and still provide good value. But you'll not often find a much cheaper alternative that is comparable for those things.

 

[fish farmer]

I don't complain about equipment prices, I'm thankful there is actually reef equipment available in the hobby. When I started my reef in 2000, places like Bulk Reef Supply were a figment of someone's imagination. There were limited internet shopping sources, lots of DIY lighting, reef ready tanks? not where I shopped....now you can get cheap hole saws and overflow kits, precut sump/refugium kits, etc. etc. I remember buying a float switch assembly from some guy who had a really basic "not secure" website....worked really well.

I recently replaced my ASM G1 skimmer....I really wanted a Euroreef back in 200?, but they went out of business.

I got a Reef Octo for about $180....did I get boned?

I have a 80% weed softy, 19% LPS and 1% SPS reef tank. Most softies don't care....T5, power compacts, probably the grow lights from Home Depot would work. LPS... may want to think about calcium additions, etc, but many don't need a bank loan to keep alive. I kill more sps than I've kept alive, so sure maybe that's the the expensive coral with the expensive price tag....but I know of one guy who keeps them thriving in a jar.

 

[sp1187]

Many new people do run away. I have a friend who has watched me talk about the hobby for over 10 years. He really wants a tank, he can afford a tank, but he just doesn't want to pay the money for it because there is so much more other stuff he can do with the money.

I'm kind of the same way. I rarely spend top end money on things. I keep smaller tanks. I settle for lower priced coral, or I get them on sale. I don't run heavy SPS tanks because I don't want to pay for all the equipment, the high prices for frags, dosing, or any of that. I run skimmers, UV lights and carbon as my main filtration. No controllers, none of that extra stuff.

The prices for the top end stuff are ridiculous. The price differences between the top end stuff and the cheaper things is extreme and goes well beyond what you are getting value wise. Like most things in life, most of the time you are paying extra for the brand name, not for extra quality. Often times, items are made by the exact same people with the exact same parts, they throw 2 brand names on them, charge more for the higher brand name, and then charge less for the lower ones. Why? So they can reach more consumers, and they will just make extra money off those who buy the more expensive item. Haven't seen this exact thing in aquarium equipment as far as I know in terms of 1 company making multiple brands, but the general concept exists where people are paying for brand name more so than extra quality.

So in short, it's the lack of value in the escalated prices that I don't care for. But people pay them and that's why it's never going to change.

There are obviously some exceptions. Some things can be expenisve and still provide good value. But you'll not often find a much cheaper alternative that is comparable for those things.

your friend doesn't reeaaallllllly want a tank. he's not bitten by it like we are.
we all could other things with the money. so much more? not with my other hobbies.

I keep a 150 Tall (is that large?) reef in-wall and thinking about adding an 80 Tall predator next to it.
I don't settle for lower priced corals. I like lower priced corals, well before the pandemic drove those up too.
I run marine pure bio blocks and an algae scrubber. SICCE return pump (5 year warranty) AquaRay lights (5 year replacement warranty). I consider that value. maxspect gyres for flow. icecaps weren't available at the time or I might have considered those.

no ATO. no mixing station. no APEX.

hands on water changes (when I do one) and top off.

I guess we kinda sorta think alike.

 

[Streetcred]

Talking equipment ... complaints are justified in many instances. As soon as "marine aquarium" descriptor appears, the cost is 'doubled' ... take lights for example, there is nothing so special about "marine aquarium" lights that does not appear in commercially available light fittings at a fraction of the cost -- I see this in my property development projects with 'specialist' lighting that we have installed ... do you really know how dirt cheap whizz-bang LED lighting is ?
Pumps, same story ... the control boards are probably $1 mass produced for a range of other commercial functions, but put that on a DC pump and describe it for "marine aquarium" and you are looking at $1k.
Maybe there are too many small volume companies with resultant high overhead costs trying to fill a niche that doesn't require filling.

Just sayin' for a friend ;-)

 

[PBLRDom]

I’m a firm believer in setting yourself up for success long term with hardware. You can build on a tank easily with fish and corals, but it’s much harder to reconfigure hardware or react to changes with hardware in an appropriate amount of time once you’re up and running.

 

[Russell Casey]

I don't complain about anything. If it is to much, I don't buy it.

But I know something about prices. I invented and patented an aquarium related device and it cost me about $30,000.00 between the patent office and lawyers. The molds were more and trying to get the thing made in America almost drove me nuts.

(I don't sell them or own the company as I gave it away) Sponsors on this forum sell it I think.

They sell for about $140.00, the profit is about $7.00, the rest goes to the manufacturer, wholesaler, shipper, material, insurance etc.
If they were made in China or India the profit would be about two dollars more. They are built in Florida.

Some things just can't be made cheaper and corals, for the most part can't be any cheaper nor can fish.

I have been to many of the places where they collect fish and they are almost free. Most of them die before they are even shipped.
The cost is in the holding facility while they are waiting for a plane and the shipping which cost way more than the fish.
Many, or sometimes all of them die in transit. No part of that business is very profitable.

We can complain but if you know people who own LFSs, do any of them look rich?

Paul,
20 years ago I think many LFS made much more money. I know an LFS when it was legal to sell sharks, pirrana's etc., made a ton of money. Now with the internet to me the prices are much less than they used to be in some cases.

 

[dbowman5]

i am sure i could find a copy on amazon but i like the idea of just carrying a brick and when i visit reefers look at the bottom of their doors and make a quick switch. thanks for the tip!

Sir, I decided i wanted your book more than i wanted to avoid patronizing Amazon. ;Bookworm

 

[Paul B]

Paul,
20 years ago I think many LFS made much more money. I know an LFS when it was legal to sell sharks, pirrana's etc., made a ton of money. Now with the internet to me the prices are much less than they used to be in some cases.

I don't find fish to be very expensive. But I think they are three or four times as much if I buy them on line.

I only bought one fish on line. A copperband. I get them in an LFS here in NY for about $25.00.
I got one recently on line and with shipping it was almost $80.00

Sir, I decided i wanted your book more than i wanted to avoid patronizing Amazon. ;Bookworm

Dbowman5. The only place I know where to get my book is the link below my name. Even if I want one, I have to buy it from there and I wrote the thing.

 

[RJKain-777]

You pay to play....

You can buy cheap, no name corals. Just like you can buy Chinese amazon knock offs.

in my opinion, I’ll spend the money on the equipment, to keep the corals and fish i want. I can’t go buy a horse, living in a condo. If you want the expensive horse, you’ll go spend more on a ranch or farm.

for me, I went from cheap knock off equipment when I first started, now I have top of the line everything, and the results are sure different, and it’s a lot easier to keep corals colourful and fish happy.
First tank vs current tank.

 

[ScottR]

You can always buy second hand. People are always leaving the hobby. Recently saw a hot new light going for 3/4 of the price. I also bought some nice equipment in perfect condition. Complain if you want but best to seek deals first.

 

[Spieg]

I'm an equal opportunity complainer. I dislike overpriced equipment just as much as overpriced livestock. Unfortunately there are plenty of both in this hobby!