Is Conservation and Stewardship of the ocean a factor in your hobby decisions?

Is Reef Conservation/Stewardship a factor in your hobby decisions? (private poll)

  • Very Important

    Votes: 270 54.0%
  • Somewhat Imporatant

    Votes: 163 32.6%
  • Not Too Important

    Votes: 48 9.6%
  • Not Important At All

    Votes: 19 3.8%

  • Total voters
    500

MnFish1

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Aren't there really 2 questions 1) is stewardship/conservation important to you (yes) and 2) does it affect your 'hobby' decisions? (no) - would be my answers.

The reasons:

1. Except for as @Brew12 said - Tank raised corals MIGHT have more likelihood of surviving, I think about the carbon footprint of these large 'coral farms'. And - in the long-term - if we keep using tank-raised 'things' will it result in less resistance to disease, once exposed.

2. What surprises me is how many people are buying frags of coral so often. Where is it all going? Are we all starting coral farms? If not - are we as a hobby failing because people are killing coral right and left (whether from the ocean or tank-raised)?

3. I think it is important to only harvest coral from areas where its sustainable. My understanding is that climate issues are part of the problem with reefs - but a far bigger problem is pollution around the reefs. So - do we really gain anything by using tank-raised coral - or would it be better to have coral farms (in the ocean) - thereby guaranteeing that at least in areas being used (and the surroundings) - are better cared for?

BTW - the carbon footprint (which is also part of conservation) for us (my family) is 150% higher than my neighbors. The difference? 2 large aquaria. So - Would it be more conserving for me to just get rid of my tanks? IDK.

Interesting discussion
 

playapixie

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I got into reef keeping after SCUBA diving in Thailand. After 8 years in the hobby, I’ve also been able to dive a few other epic locations. I’ve seen first hand the devastation that wild collection does. Those areas of reef are not recovering In most places. I’ve also witnessed cyanide fishing and seen how many fish die that aren’t even the intended targets. Our hobby has significant negative impact. If we love the reefs, we have to consider how we impact them. I am very conscientious about only purchasing aquacultured and corals from other reefers.
 

MnFish1

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I will just add this, since it has already been brought up multiple times.....


Who on a hobbyist level is going to honestly have some coral grow too big, cut/remove it, and keep it in water, SHIP IT perhaps, and someone is going to receive it, possibly dive, and plant/place it in he ocean?


Stop fooling yourselves...... you enjoy reef tanks in your homes/offices..... you’re not Saturday morning cartoon hero Captain Planet.....

Additionally - its not environmentally sound to remove coral from a tank - and replace it into the wild (i.e,. taking an Indonesian coral and putting it in Florida, etc etc). And - Who is to say - if the oceans are 'dying' - why would transplanted coral survive - without correcting the underlying problem causing the original population to die in the first place. Based on what I've read - the aquarium trade is not the problem (at all)

EDIT - unless you're a scientist, etc.
 
Last edited:

HotRocks

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Aren't there really 2 questions 1) is stewardship/conservation important to you (yes) and 2) does it affect your 'hobby' decisions? (no) - would be my answers.

The reasons:

1. Except for as @Brew12 said - Tank raised corals MIGHT have more likelihood of surviving, I think about the carbon footprint of these large 'coral farms'. And - in the long-term - if we keep using tank-raised 'things' will it result in less resistance to disease, once exposed.

2. What surprises me is how many people are buying frags of coral so often. Where is it all going? Are we all starting coral farms? If not - are we as a hobby failing because people are killing coral right and left (whether from the ocean or tank-raised)?

3. I think it is important to only harvest coral from areas where its sustainable. My understanding is that climate issues are part of the problem with reefs - but a far bigger problem is pollution around the reefs. So - do we really gain anything by using tank-raised coral - or would it be better to have coral farms (in the ocean) - thereby guaranteeing that at least in areas being used (and the surroundings) - are better cared for?

BTW - the carbon footprint (which is also part of conservation) for us (my family) is 150% higher than my neighbors. The difference? 2 large aquaria. So - Would it be more conserving for me to just get rid of my tanks? IDK.

Interesting discussion
Just curious, what impact is it that your aquariums have on your carbon footprint? Are you just referring to energy consumption running the tanks?
 

MnFish1

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Just curious, what impact is it that your aquariums have on your carbon footprint? Are you just referring to energy consumption running the tanks?

Yes - I mentioned it because I today got the monthly 'flier' from the electric company with how much energy we used compared to 'average' neighbors - and we were 150% higher than 'average' and 200% higher than 'conservative' neighbors.

If taken to the extreme - I think (and its being made by many groups) that individuals should not keep aquariums in general (and they liken breeding 'companies' / fish/Coral farms much like 'chicken farmers'). So - in addition to the 'conservation' issue - there is also the 'moral' issue expressed by some.
 

HotRocks

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Yes - I mentioned it because I today got the monthly 'flier' from the electric company with how much energy we used compared to 'average' neighbors - and we were 150% higher than 'average' and 200% higher than 'conservative' neighbors.

If taken to the extreme - I think (and its being made by many groups) that individuals should not keep aquariums in general (and they liken breeding 'companies' much like 'chicken farmers'. So - in addition to the 'conservation' issue - there is also the 'moral' issue expressed by some.
That’s exactly why I asked you because I got the same message today and it made me think of it :)

Mine is not completely accurate because my home is actually 500SF larger than the range for the data and was built in 2016 (so as far as the data goes it’s not 100% accurate, my home is newer than what they are comparing to, so should be more efficient yet larger so less efficient in comparison). I’d say it’s safe to say I’m at least 150% more impactful on the carbon footprint as well. I have two full time tanks running totaling 320 gallons and then another 360g in the basement across 6 tanks (none of which ran in October/November) :(
C92C8BE3-AA88-46C9-A00F-38F997DA15C1.png
 

MnFish1

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That’s exactly why I asked you because I got the same message today and it made me think of it :)

Mine is not completely accurate because my home is actually 500SF larger than the range for the data and was built in 2016 (so as far as the data goes it’s not 100% accurate, my home is newer than what they are comparing to, so should be more efficient yet larger so less efficient in comparison). I’d say it’s safe to say I’m at least 150% more impactful on the carbon footprint as well. I have two full time tanks running totaling 320 gallons and then another 360g in the basement across 6 tanks (none of which ran in October/November) :(
C92C8BE3-AA88-46C9-A00F-38F997DA15C1.png
On my bill it said - consider getting rid of your aquaria (JK)
 

Aheinz

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So I put somewhat, as when I first started I didn't know anything about the conservation efforts nearly as much as I am now, and how involved the Hobby and Community is in it. I've always leaned towards Captive bred, or captive grown, as I chocked it up to less chance of parasites and pests over wild caught/ collected. I love seeing how companies and groups will use a certain portion to go towards conservation projects and research though. As I'm delving deeper into the hobby and expanding my knowledge, I am looking into it more.
 

DibsOnMcRibs

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I prefer aquacultured corals because they are generally more forgiving of my mistakes.
Where fish are concerned, I only purchase captive bred fish. My last bucketlist fish on the list is a captive bred blue tang.
 

Phildago

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This is a difficult question for me, because I feel like buying any coral and taking part in the hobby at any level, even just taking the time to genuinely admire wild or domestic coral directly contributes to reef conservation more than any law could ever.

People are more likely to cause damage to something that they know nothing about than something they admire. So by blocking people's access to growing an appreciation for something like corals would lead to people inadvertently destroying reefs, or simply just not having the man power to fight back against the damage that is done.

I think it's exceptionally rare to find a person that admires something and actively seeks to destroy it. I see it as something very similar to wild game preservation. Most hunters admire the animals they hunt, and would go to great lengths to ensure that there will be game the following year. Although some hunters abuse the rules, without hunters there would be no one funding the nature preserves.

In my eyes, if anyone's going to help preserve coral populations, it's us. So, I'd be will to shop from anyone who isn't literally dismantling an entire coral reef and moving to the next Ocean. Chances are that some of the money you spent on any coral will go back into the ocean, and that's more than anyone who isn't in the hobby can say for themselves.
 

Tennyson

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Did anyone hear that the Indo ban is being 'lifted'? It looks like a sustainability plan is in the works for indo farmed coral, I already saw some roll out on Vivid.

aind.PNG


I'm much more likely to buy a farmed coral over wild caught. Tons of the Euphyllia I've tried from Liveaquaria diver's den end up dying overnight, and those were wild caught from Australia. I'm glad Indonesia is directing the market and the hobby into a sustainable direction that ultimately is healthier for the coral and coral reefs too.
 

Braves Fan

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What a big issue ,,, I would go so far as to say the biggest issue in the hobby today ,,,

Do I want to believe that all the corals and fish that enter into the hobby today are collected in a safe ,, sustainable way ,,, yes ,, do I believe that they are ,,, there is just no way that I can even pretend in my mind that this is happening ,, over collecting has ,, jmo ,,, become a way of life ,,, something needs to be done ,, but what to do and who needs to be responsible in setting the bar ,, this is a issue that has to be set by the governments is the countries where the collecting is done ,, I am sure the jobs created ,, the money entering the local economies ,, the taxes paid to the governments where the collecting is done ,,, should entice sustainable collecting laws to be enacted and enforced ,, I look at the Indo ban as a good thing ,, if for no other reason as to give corals and fish collected a breather ,,

I remember when Scoly corals came into the hobby ,,, the Scolys collected were big corals purdy corals ,, now it seems most of the ones I see on the coral sites being offered for sale are in the 2 inch size ,, its to the point you can't tell a regular Scoly from a Button Scoly ,, point is ,,, the big Scolys are gone ,,, they are collecting the second tier corals ,, at what point will the Scolys be gone ,, is there anyone out there looking out for these corals ,, I am sure they have collection areas and other areas that are off limits ,, but when the Scolys in that area are gone ,, the collectors will be saying ,, open up those other areas ,, which isn't a bad thing as long as the already collected area has the time to recoup from the harvesting it has gone thru ,,

I live on the Mississippi Gulf Coast ,, back in my younger days when I fished in the Gulf of Mexico ,, we used to have 6 to 8 recreational Snapper fish per day limits ,, that number is down to 1 or 2 fish per person per day ,, not sure what the number is ,, I am out of the hobby now ,, but the number is low ,, so low ,, it isn't worth the money ,, gas ,, bait ,, tackle ,, to go out to pursue catching these fish ,, the reason is because of low fish numbers ,, here is the kicker ,, the reason for the low fish numbers isn't because of the recreational fisherman ,, its because of shrimp boat trawls and their by catch totals ,, for every shrimp caught that make it to your dinner table ,,, there are 50 or most likely more ,, smaller fish caught that end up dieing and tossed back over the side of the boat ,, when you have 5 of 7 board members setting on these state panels that set the rules ,, and those 5 members are owners of shrimp companies ,, guess what happens ,, by catch controls aren't put into place ,, at some point all the the total fishery collapses ,,

Shrimp is a big powerful industry ,, as is coral and fish collecting for our hobby ,, you have to have governments step in and take control of these industries ,, I know that's not a popular thing to say now days ,, more government control :) at the end of the day ,, you can't let the collectors set their own rules ,,, you end up with ,, I will get my $$$ as fast as I can ,, when the industry collapses ,, I will move onto something else ,,
 

Zohar78

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i so wanted to vote, very important, but went with somewhat important. why because i dont always think to ask aobut where the coral/fish/animal come from. Heck half the time the fish store may not know either.
 

Doctorgori

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I dunno ....If you've witnessed 1st hand or read about the destruction commercial operations have in the coral triangle and Caribbean or elsewhere you realize the hobby's impact is nil in comparison... my take is probably more impactful to do your part at the grocery store and skip the Orange Roughy, Chilean Sea bass and other non-sustainables
 

SunshineNinja

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I'm big on conservation. I also like to look at things from every angle to get a full picture. I was firmly in the aquacultured ONLY mindset for a little while. Then I started reading more about where our beloved fish and coral come from and how we got to where we are able to grow our own coral and fish. Two reasons I'm now on the fence:

1. Some (not all) of the places that the coral and fish are collected are in impoverished communities. The locals survive by catching and selling coral and fish, so they have a very good reason to ensure the reefs are protected and valued.

2. Most of the fish and corals we keep in our tanks are only harvested due to the demand of the marine hobbyist market. Without the demand there would not need to be a supply. And without that demand there would be no reason to know how to breed these fish in captivity or frag certain coral colonies. Scientists weren't about to do it. Who would fund them? Conservation groups are great but they have to be very selective with what grants they award. Without the demand of the marine aquarium hobbyist we wouldn't have all this knowledge and information about the reefs.

I don't think our impact on the reefs is what you think it is. I live in Florida and have been diving and snorkeling and playing in the Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean and Atlantic Ocean my whole life. The reefs are dying because of all the fertilizer being washed into the ocean. Because the ocean temps are fluctuating too quickly. Because over-fishing takes out the big predators and messes up the balance of the reef. There are so many reasons why. And it hurts my heart. My hope is that our hobby will help. By finding ways to aquaculture coral we are helping the scientists who are studying coral and finding solutions to a massive problem.
 

flsalty

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I didn't vote in the poll because it is too broad. If I found out a coral supplier was basically strip mining a reef for coral then I would not buy from them. If they are responsibly removing coral from a reef then I have no problem with that. If I found out a fish supplier was using cyanide, for example, I would not buy from them. I have no problem with wild caught fish in general. So yes, those two things would affect some decisions I make in the hobby. Even so, I've never actually investigated deeply into where I've bought fish and corals.

I don't go out of my way to get only captive bred fish or aquacultured and maricultured corals. I think that might make for an interesting theme tank, but it would be hard to get a cleanup crew other than whatever hitchhiked on maricultured live rock. The only reason I would do that is because I like doing theme tanks, but that's not high on my list of what I'd like to do.

I don't believe hobbyists have much input on "saving reefs". Any info we put out there mainly benefits other hobbyists in the keeping of their animals. Our input also probably helps out companies who do captive breeding. And don't kid yourself, those companies do it to make money, not conserve reefs. And while it is a romantic notion that we basically have some sort of coral seed bank that could replenish the world's reefs at a moments notice, the reality is there is no way to know what pathogens we would be introducing into the oceans if we actually tried that. However, it's possible that some species could be saved in captivity should they somehow go extinct in the wild.
 

samnaz

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Very important. My infatuation with coral reefs and the need for conservation and restoration in the wild is the only reason I started a reef tank. Of course other unexpected reasons have made it enjoyable. But the reason I started and the reason I keep going is mainly because of my dream to one day grow and plant corals in wild reefs that have become decimated. Or provide some kind of help whatever that may be.

My current tank is aquacultured corals only.
I just see no reason to buy a coral taken from the ocean when WE are growing them ourselves! There isn’t a coral I want to keep that can’t be purchased from a facility that fragged and grew it themselves. I don't care what it costs compared to its wild counterparts. Whether or not our hobby and wild collection effect wild reefs negatively is not the point. The point is, we can simultaneously not harm wild reefs at all AND help them, simply by purchasing aquacultured corals, growing them ourselves, and documenting our successes and failures.

I am not a fish keeper, so I can’t speak on their behalf. But, if I ever do get a fish it will be captive bred OR I need some kind of proof it was caught in a sustainable manner. For now, the only fish I want (Painted/wartskin Anglers) are bred in captivity and the proof of wild caught sustainability is questionable at best.

Great question if the day @revhtree
 

ca1ore

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Not really sure how to answer the poll ..... I do occasionally buy a coral colony from divers den, but the vast majority are frag trades with local reefers. Absent a major tank crash, my tank is a net frag producer. Interesting comment about where all the purchased frags are going. I suspect that the loss rate is very high. I don’t worry as much about fish, though my tank is mostly population stable so it’s just replacing for occasional attrition. That an the occasional guilty pleasure purchase. I hope my tangs outlast me in the hobby. I do feel occasionally guilty about my power usage - I’m close to 200% of ‘normal’ usage. All the tanks fault!
 

markfmvl

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It depends on what you mean by conservation and stewardship. I support responsible collection techniques and mariculture and aquaculture.
 

daftwazzock

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Yes and no. I am convinced that the future of life in the oceans is bleak at best. So many pressures being put on it from humans. Overfishing (collecting for the aquarium trade is a tiny fraction of the damage being done to reef habitats compared to commercial fishing), fish stock depletion, pollution, microplastics, PH levels dropping, heat waves, reefs bleaching.

With that in mind, I believe that it is our duty as aquarium keepers to preserve as much biodiversity as possible. Coral breeding and propagation among hobbyists may be the only refuge for those life forms until the climate can be stabilized again.

So taking a few rare specimens from a reef that is likely doomed is not harming it, its helping. Especially if they can be propagated or bred. How much biodiversity has already been lost in Florida or Australia alone? Those reefs aren't coming back.
 
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