Is DIY tap water filter sufficient because i dont have R/O

[ScottR]

For everyone using tap water, please please get a TDS meter. They’re really cheap. Over time, water evaporates out and those dissolved solids accumulate as you top off water. So think far down the road.

 

[Bpb]

Love posts like this....

Hobbyists comes to forums to ask if what their doing is right, when told no, they basically try to explain why they think it's good, and continue doing it anyways.

Why even bother making a thread?

It’s difficult to not get irritated at threads like this.


I’ve been asked this a lot by locals when I help them put together their first tanks

“why remove everything with an RODI just to add it all back in?”

the answer is simple. You’re not adding it all back in. You aren’t adding back arsenic, lead, copper, useless organic matter, insurmountable amounts of phosphate, and especially in my instance, 25 dkh worth of alkalinity. You’re adding back a roughly balanced profile of what you’ll find in natural seawater. The point isn’t to clean the water. The point is to start with a natural element profile.

Even if you have great tap water, you will eventually have an ionic Imbalance of something you are over supplementing via your tap water. That’s all there is to it. Will it bother damselfish, Xenia, trash palys, macro algae? Probably not. And if you like to keep an old school tank that is a picture of the 1980’s era in the hobby, that is absolutely your business and I won’t fault you for it.

but there is a reason people keep acropora now, goniopora, and any other number of previously impossible to keep specimens. It’s not due to controllable leds, or automation, or any of the newfangled technology that frustrates the olds. It is improved water quality. No, I did not say sterile water, or cleaner water. I said better water. A better understanding of what an element profile in water should be relative to the nutrition available. That has improved the hobby the most. You can do just as much with vho lighting from a results standpoint as you can with the newest, feature packed leds. You cannot do just as much with tap water and terrestrial mined limestone chunks as you can with a tank using excellent water quality and marine rocks.

 

[Bpb]

That's like me saying its abyzz or you're not getting enough flow.

That’s a poor analogy.

 

[Key-tie]

Please start your tap water build thread and link it to this discussion. I think we’d all like to follow along... Add lots of pictures too.

Would be happy to...

 

[hart24601]

People are mean...because they choose to be mean.
And because most are convinced that their way is the only way, and other methods are a waste of time.
Lol
I did tanks for years without RO water and they turn out just fine.
In certain applications it may be necessary, but not all.
Its not...RO or nothing.
I like raising these discussions to make people think, and to gain knowledge myself.
But...people are mean and nasty because they CHOOSE to be.

Isnt that what you’re arguing? Tap water is better being more natural? Or that you can do it and we have all been tricked by ‘big ro’? I mean what was the point of the thread, clearly not looking for advice on your tap water filter it seems since others have weighed in, some even that previously used tap water and switched, and said that using tap is not a good idea long term.

 

[Key-tie]

Isnt that what you’re arguing? Tap water is better being more natural? Or that you can do it and we have all been tricked by ‘big ro’? I mean what was the point of the thread, clearly not looking for advice on your tap water filter it seems since others have weighed in, some even that previously used tap water and switched, and said that using tap is not a good idea long term.

Im actually arguing the point that i personally believe that RO systems remove too much from water, and there no true way of knowing if what we add back is sufficient.
If you look up the composition of seawater, it goes much deeper than what we put back.
For instance...the copper everyone wants to remove serves a specific purpose in oceanwater.
So do some heavy metals and other things we remove.
I will post a seawater link from encyclopedia britannica.
Theres no way we put back all that is needed when you strip it bare with RO.

 

[Bpb]

Im actually arguing the point that i personally believe that RO systems remove too much from water, and there no true way of knowing if what we add back is sufficient.
If you look up the composition of seawater, it goes much deeper than what we put back.
For instance...the copper everyone wants to remove serves a specific purpose in oceanwater.
So do some heavy metals and other things we remove.
I will post a seawater link from encyclopedia britannica.
Theres no way we put back all that is needed when you strip it bare with RO.

reseaech the element profile of various salt mixes through independent ICP analysis. You’ll be surprised

 

[Key-tie]

Www.britannica.com/science/seawater

It is a very long and detailed article that goes very in depth about seawater composition.
In my opinion, to try to strip and recreate that... causes unnecessary problems.

 

[hart24601]

Im actually arguing the point that i personally believe that RO systems remove too much from water, and there no true way of knowing if what we add back is sufficient.
If you look up the composition of seawater, it goes much deeper than what we put back.
For instance...the copper everyone wants to remove serves a specific purpose in oceanwater.
So do some heavy metals and other things we remove.
I will post a seawater link from encyclopedia britannica.
Theres no way we put back all that is needed when you strip it bare with RO.

So you are looking at scientific analysis of seawater to prove your point, but then rejecting scientific formulation of artificial seawater. However that is for filling up a tank. Most of us use RO/DI for evaporation, and as you know minerals and other compounds don’t evaporate so the tap will continue to add those as you keep topping the water off as well. It’s easy to see with a 5g bucket and tds meter over time if one wants.

As to not knowing if what we add back if sufficient, is there some evidence you have of the best reefs in the hobby lacking something tap water would provide? And how can we compare our tap water to ocean water? You certainly can use natural sea water for a tank if you desire with no problems if careful about avoiding pollution but top off water tends to be another story.

 

[Bpb]

Www.britannica.com/science/seawater

It is a very long and detailed article that goes very in depth about seawater composition.
In my opinion, to try to strip and recreate that... causes unnecessary problems.

There you go. You’ve got it figured out then it appears. Carry on

 

[Key-tie]

So you are looking at scientific analysis of seawater to prove your point, but then rejecting scientific formulation of artificial seawater. However that is for filling up a tank. Most of us use RO/DI for evaporation, and as you know minerals and other compounds don’t evaporate so the tap will continue to add those as you keep topping the water off as well. It’s easy to see with a 5g bucket and tds meter over time if one wants.

As to not knowing if what we add back if sufficient, is there some evidence you have of the best reefs in the hobby lacking something tap water would provide? And how can we compare our tap water to ocean water? You certainly can use natural sea water for a tank if you desire with no problems if careful about avoiding pollution but top off water tends to be another story.

There you go. You’ve got it figured out then it appears. Carry on

And it appears that you wont look at rhe article to see what im actually saying, because you have it figured out also...
Carry on.

 

[Bpb]

And it appears that you wont look at rhe article to see what im actually saying, because you have it figured out also...
Carry on.

Listen. I’ve read plenty of articles and peer reviewed texts on the fundamental elements of seawater. The article you provided is neither new nor supportive of your argument.

 

[Bpb]

Www.britannica.com/science/seawater

It is a very long and detailed article that goes very in depth about seawater composition.
In my opinion, to try to strip and recreate that... causes unnecessary problems.

You do realize that people aren’t stripping the 70+ element profile from seawater correct? They’re stripping whatever happens to be in their tap water. Most people are completely unaware of what is in their tap water. I happen to be aware of what is in mine based on a dozen or so water quality reports. Public information. 25 dkh alone is enough to deter me from ever using tap water in any capacity in my tank. 0.3 ppm PO4 doesn’t help either. Do you know what is in your tap water, even after passive carbon filtering? Have you successfully attempted a long term reef tank with any manner of difficult to keep stony corals or invertebrates? Even if you have, you have succeeded with YOUR tap water. YOUR tap water is not reflective of your neighboring town, let alone any one of us who live hundreds if not thousands of miles from your municipal water facility.

 

[Key-tie]

So you are looking at scientific analysis of seawater to prove your point, but then rejecting scientific formulation of artificial seawater. However that is for filling up a tank. Most of us use RO/DI for evaporation, and as you know minerals and other compounds don’t evaporate so the tap will continue to add those as you keep topping the water off as well. It’s easy to see with a 5g bucket and tds meter over time if one wants.

As to not knowing if what we add back if sufficient, is there some evidence you have of the best reefs in the hobby lacking something tap water would provide? And how can we compare our tap water to ocean water? You certainly can use natural sea water for a tank if you desire with no problems if careful about avoiding pollution but top off water tends to be another story.

What i am saying is...
All over the world, freshwater flows into the oceans, not the other way around.
By stripping the freshwater of all its compounds, i feel you are changing things that should also be in our man-made recreation of seawater.
Theres a reason people termed RO water as "dead water" at one time.

 

[Key-tie]

It does not rain RO water.
All the nitrates, phospates, chemicals, minerals, etc...etc...etc...etc...are there in the freshwater when it flows into the ocean.
It all gets used by the oceans systems that we try to recreate for our enjoyment.
When nitrates rise, plants flourish and use it up.
When element concentrations change, it gets used by the corals or animals or inverts or plants or algae.
The system takes care of the contaminants and adjusts.
We only recreate a small slice that we want to bend to our idea of what it should be...and in my opinion, try to control too many of the variables.

 

[kapnkush608]

It does not rain RO water.
All the nitrates, phospates, chemicals, minerals, etc...etc...etc...etc...are there in the freshwater when it flows into the ocean.
It all gets used by the oceans systems that we try to recreate for our enjoyment.
When nitrates rise, plants flourish and use it up.
When element concentrations change, it gets used by the corals or animals or inverts or plants or algae.
The system takes care of the contaminants and adjusts.
We only recreate a small slice that we want to bend to our idea of what it should be...and in my opinion, try to control too many of the variables.

Okay bud, it's big brain time. Pour a bottle of copper power into your tank then pour one into the great barrier reef. Which reef is gonna survive? You're talking about vastly different concentrations in vastly different volumes of water. 1 aspirin won't kill you but eat 100 and you're going to the hospital. Also the health of all aquatic ecosystems are in decline partly because of treated water and other run off. They live by dilution being the solution to pollution.

 

[Key-tie]

Okay bud, it's big brain time. Pour a bottle of copper power into your tank then pour one into the great barrier reef. Which reef is gonna survive? You're talking about vastly different concentrations in vastly different volumes of water. 1 aspirin won't kill you but eat 100 and you're going to the hospital. Also the health of all aquatic ecosystems are in decline partly because of treated water and other run off. They live by dilution being the solution to pollution.

I understand, and agree 100 %.
Was only trying to talk about overkill, and the thread went off onto all kind of directions.

 

[Bpb]

I understand, and agree 100 %.
Was only trying to talk about overkill, and the thread went off onto all kind of directions.

I don’t think it did. I just think the original statements in response to the discussion of the power filter idea were made on a poor foundation of assumption and hunches, while ignoring reasonable facts in favor of the “maybe”

 

[Key-tie]

Okay bud, it's big brain time. Pour a bottle of copper power into your tank then pour one into the great barrier reef. Which reef is gonna survive? You're talking about vastly different concentrations in vastly different volumes of water. 1 aspirin won't kill you but eat 100 and you're going to the hospital. Also the health of all aquatic ecosystems are in decline partly because of treated water and other run off. They live by dilution being the solution to pollution.

I don’t think it did. I just think the original statements in response to the discussion of the power filter idea were made on a poor foundation of assumption and hunches, while ignoring reasonable facts in favor of the “maybe”

And if it makes one person think of other possibilities and ways to do things besides just tossing tech at the problems to try to control them...then it was worth it.

 

[Bpb]

Oh sir. If you think an rodi filter is “tech” your mind will explode when you learn what a mastertronic is.