Is Indonesia Ban going to lift?

[LIreefguy]

Great post
Thank you for your post

 

[LIreefguy]

So the people harvesting the animals or coral will protect it because they make money off the product
That is laughable
Ask the buffalo how it worked out for them

 

[SeaDweller]

Indo supplied almost 95% of the hobby, prices will go down. That whole torch greedy money run almost made it's way into acropora. I'm just happy there having talks about it.

Almost made its way? It did...

 

[sde1500]

The people who lived there and saw it first hand. And a guy who currently imports fish from Indo and who used to import 100 of boxes of coral a week isn’t a good source of information. But the article you read online is

hear·say
/ˈhirˌsā/
noun

1. information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.

My sources online that I've read I guess are verified. I know who wrote it. I know who produced the video. But you say I should branch out from the Internet, ok fine. But then you also say I should trust the word of two internet forum users that have, to this point, produced no verifiable identification or credentials. I'm not even saying I don't believe the guy saying he lives there. I'm saying the reefs being decimated shouldn't play a part in decided to ban mariculture.

Indonesia has no way to police the industry. You keep skipping this point.

Then maybe as part of this review the decide to implement some means of doing so.

How can they tell where the coral came from.

Certified and licensed facilities. They control where it comes from now by not issuing any permits. Issue permits to facilities that can prove they are engaging in mariculture and not wild harvest. This isn't some revolutionary idea. The only reason there is a ban right now is because they did a wink nudge and said they'll issue permits, but aren't.

They do not have the money or means to control it
So they decided that for the good of the reefs they would close the whole thing

Seems they don't have the means to do that since its commonly believed there is current poaching and smuggling going on.

So the people harvesting the animals or coral will protect it because they make money off the product
That is laughable
Ask the buffalo how it worked out for them

If we're stooping to using nearly 200 year old examples then maybe its a reach to use? Most of the United States has vast acreage of managed timberland. The logging companies make money cutting trees, but are smart enough to not clear cut every acre they own. Once again, not a far reaching concept.

Though at this point I am acknowledging that this is fruitless, and going in circles. Posts edited for hostility when that charge has been levied towards others signals it is likely a good time for me to bow out. You can have your beliefs, you are welcome to them. It is my hope that for the good of this hobby and industry, they take a good hard look at the ban and reconsider including sustainable mariculture under the ban.

 

[Wh00pS32]

They do not have the money or means to control it
So they decided that for the good of the reefs they would close the whole thing
I know you didn’t say it someone else did

The ban was nothing to do with the reefs.
The ban came about due to government infighting over large scale fishing rights and foreign boats fishing in indo waters, the coral export ban is just a by product of this infighting and has nothing to do with conserving the reefs.

 

[LIreefguy]

No one is asking you to trust us
At this point it’s getting old
Your saying I should listen to you that your sources are the best

I had many talks with a guy who imported corals from Indonesia The company is one of the largest in the world. Emark. If you think listening to guy that is hear say. Then another guy who’s been scuba diving there for years. And wait another guy who’s lived there. We are all trolls who have no idea what we are talking about

I respect that you have the right to think that
But honestly if all the people on here no nothing then why even post and listen to anyone

I could say the same about you. How do I even know you have a reef tank. Maybe you only keep guppies. I seen no proof how can I know
See how silly that sounds

 

[LIreefguy]

Can I ask how you know this

I agree it’s probably has a lot to do with conserving the fisheries

Let’s face it fishing is more economical important that corals
But by protecting the corals you protect the fish

Why do you assume the people in charge are all corrupt and care nothing about corals

Do you know any of these people

 

[LIreefguy]

Seems they don't have the means to do that since its commonly believed there is current poaching and smuggling going on.

Do you have any clue to how poor this country is. Please research it and get back to me

They aren’t going to spend money on the policing the coral industry so Rich Americans can get cheap corals

You can’t honestly believe a 3rd world country should allocate resources from there everyday life so I can have a cheap torch in my tank
Please you can’t really be saying that.

Protecting the reef protects the fish

The people on Indonesia eat fish To live.

Yes 14000 Jobs where lost to the closing of the coral trade. But do you have any idea what would happen if the indo waters became bare of fish
Yes I know it can’t happen
Coral farms will save us all
Have a great day I am done good luck

 

[vanpire]

The destruction of the reefs in Indonesia and other places is terrible. From what I person can see, most of it is from tourism, over fishing and population/farming pollution near the reefs. I am sure some of it is due to our hobby. But if you see what used to be reefs near major tourists attractions and growing towns, it will be obvious. See Boracay and many of the Thai islands for example. There are many more examples.

Mariculture might not stop poaching but it is one the few times have people trying to make more corals in the ocean instead of destroying it. It gives people ownership of their livelihood and they will protect it. This has to be a good thing.

The problem with buffaloes example cited before and the reefs currently is that local communities aren’t given some sort of “ownership” and reasons to protect it. It is the metality of “If I don’t exploit, someone else willl so the future be &$@%.” If we really want to protect the reefs, make of profitable for the communities living around the reefs to do so and they will protect it much better than any government agencies.

 

[LIreefguy]

The destruction of the reefs in Indonesia and other places is terrible. From what I person can see, most of it is from tourism, over fishing and population/farming pollution near the reefs. I am sure some of it is due to our hobby. But if you see what used to be reefs near major tourists attractions and growing towns, it will be obvious. See Boracay and many of the Thai islands for example. There are many more examples.

Mariculture might not stop poaching but it is one the few times have people trying to make more corals in the ocean instead of destroying it. It gives people ownership of their livelihood and they will protect it. This has to be a good thing.

The problem with buffaloes example cited before and the reefs currently is that local communities aren’t given some sort of “ownership” and reasons to protect it. It is the metality of “If I don’t exploit, someone else willl so the future be &$@%.” If we really want to protect the reefs, make of profitable for the communities living around the reefs to do so and they will protect it much better than any government agencies.

All great points. And I think they should lift the ban. But in a smart way. Maybe just tax the Corals so they can pay for the policing I don’t have the answers and won’t assume To know it all

 

[sde1500]

And I think they should lift the ban. But in a smart way. Maybe just tax the Corals so they can pay for the policing

Do you have any clue to how poor this country is. Please research it and get back to me

They aren’t going to spend money on the policing the coral industry so Rich Americans can get cheap corals

You can’t honestly believe a 3rd world country should allocate resources from there everyday life so I can have a cheap torch in my tank
Please you can’t really be saying that.

 

[SeaDweller]

so uh... what are you guys arguing about on here?

 

[LIreefguy]

so uh... what are you guys arguing about on here?

At this point no idea anymore lol

 

[Sabellafella]

Almost made its way? It did...

LOL yea, well, not entirely but there's plenty of hobbiest that didn't get greedy. Almost every single person with a gold torch sees $$ instead of something pretty.

I give it till before the summer, stronger possibility the farmers will have first dibs. Very excited that it was recognized by the government, instead of being in the blind.

To everyone talking about conservation, keep in mind almost all of the farmers I follow along or read upon "put back" about 10% of there cultures to sustain their local reef. In a sense, almost all of there stock is grown from broodstock they've had for years. Although it seems like taking coral from the reef is the wrong thing to do, most of these farmers actually have a big impact on coral conservation along with extremely important programs that benefit the research/replace of coral reefs. There's tons of interesting stuff you can read online about it. Some pretty cool stuff I came across on the forum as well

 

[Reesj]

LOL yea, well, not entirely but there's plenty of hobbiest that didn't get greedy. Almost every single person with a gold torch sees $$ instead of something pretty.

I give it till before the summer, stronger possibility the farmers will have first dibs. Very excited that it was recognized by the government, instead of being in the blind.

To everyone talking about conservation, keep in mind almost all of the farmers I follow along or read upon "put back" about 10% of there cultures to sustain their local reef. In a sense, almost all of there stock is grown from broodstock they've had for years. Although it seems like taking coral from the reef is the wrong thing to do, most of these farmers actually have a big impact on coral conservation along with extremely important programs that benefit the research/replace of coral reefs. There's tons of interesting stuff you can read online about it. Some pretty cool stuff I came across on the forum as well

If you beleive the coral farmers stories of coral conservation in south east Asia that great man. We need people with your optimisum in world. While you at it, I'm a prince in here but have a small money problem these days. Can you send me $ 1000 I will pay 2x in 1 month .
I have been to quite a few marine fish exporters and reefs here in Sri LAnka and have even seen their stories and documentries of coral and fish convservation. They wil lgive back 10% to the wild to colelct back 10x more.

 

[Doctorgori]

what I'm about to say might miss the mark a lil......
but If you've ever seen an Asian or third world market up close, just the sheer volume and diversity of things collected from the wild or sea is mind blowing: cockatoos, snakes, monkeys, blah blah
....heck a $100 giant clam over here is a $2 food item over there...
FWIW my Dad used to say when people were hungry the hills were silent during the Great Depression

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

I think the ban should be in place for life. The way that Indonesia decimated the reefs is unfathomable.

Who's life ?

 

[Chandlertank108]

I am an Indonesian. I been reading a lot for local news in Indonesia about corals ban. The damage in Indonesia reef is already there and it will take a long time to recover. In my opinion the ban should be stay that way, let them recover and develop a better rule and law before starting exporting corals again.

 

[ppatches24]

Who's life ?

Lets go with a kid born today?

 

[Bape47]

Ok so can i have a holy grail torch for 500$ a head now? Anyone is selling?