Is Indonesia Ban going to lift?

[DeepBlueSeaV1]

Keep the band in place. Plenty of aquaculture to keep the hobby going.

 

[DraggingTail]

Aquaculture
Keep the ban

 

[mannyhernz]

I think the ban should be in place for life. The way that Indonesia decimated the reefs is unfathomable.

What are you even doing here?

 

[Larry L]

Aquaculture
Keep the ban

Except that the ban includes aquacultured and maricultured corals from Indonesia, not just the wild collected stuff. Coral farms in Indonesia doing responsible mariculture there have basically shut down because of not being able to export anything, and that's a big chunk of the aquacultured/maricultured supply.

 

[Reef Lounge Coral]

 

[LIreefguy]

Yes coral farming is sustainable but the problem is Indonesia is so poor it was like the wild Wild West

you have independent contracts (single guy with a snorkel ) going out to find coral

there was no way to monitor where he got that coral from or how he got it

he would drive his bicycle to a wholesaler and sell them his corals
I know this because I am friends with someone who family imported tons of corals from Indo

Indonesia didn’t have the funds to police this correctly.
basically think of the ivory trade in Africa
While it surely possible to harvest ivory from elephants responsible. How on earth would you know where it came from

you know what 10 means to a person in Indonesia

I hope the Ban is lifted but only if it’s responsible

the video of coral racks overgrown with corals isn’t an indication that the natural reefs where ok when harvesting was going on

 

[120reefkeeper]

I don’t believe the ban will be lifted. It’s all a money grab. We are doing just fine without them.

 

[living_tribunal]

Maybe there’s some Indonesian gold torch.... that isn’t $600.

 

[Chris oliveria]

It's ridiculous that prices are as high as they are to begin with. The amount of hobbyist growing and fragging from their own tanks is enough to keep others happy. The problem is greed. I mean I get it, if it's yours, it's yours but putting a 1400 price on a hg torch is just pathetic. If it weren't for this "ban" there wouldn't be a demand to begin with.. It's funny how that works.

 

[Reef man 89]

so would this mean Fiji and pukiani rock would become available again if the band is lifted?

 

[Alemoki]

Make a resource which is easily sustainable someone's livelihood and that someone will protect it, because if he/she doesn't, then they no longer have their livelihood.

If Indo leaves the ban in place, do you think the local people who used to perform mariculture activities and reef restoration for later propogation will continue to do so even though it will never make them cash again? I doubt it.

If you want reefs to be looked after, make looking after it a profitable endeavour by opening up trade of maricultured pieces again

 

[Gmerek2]

I personally believe there is a possibility the sustainability part was mostly fake news. I saw videos of people scubua for hundreds of yards in search of the right colored acro or tenuis to harvest off a wild area then chopping the whole thing out. But when talk of a ban started they started showing off the small sustainability tactics, just putting on a front. In a buisiness the cheapest and most profitable way of harvesting coral puts the other guy out of business. I think there was high likelihood of some extremely damaging harvesting going on somewhere. Or the ban wouldn’t have lasted this long. On a lighter note I think they can do it right and actually help the reefs but it will co$t us in price when we go to buy. I haven’t had luck with wilds or mariculture for a lot of reasons but that’s a whole new story so I don’t care what they do with the ban.

 

[Zapatainc]

We have to wait 18000 years....lol "Decision made by end of November 20019."

 

[Halal Hotdog]

Make a resource which is easily sustainable someone's livelihood and that someone will protect it, because if he/she doesn't, then they no longer have their livelihood.

If Indo leaves the ban in place, do you think the local people who used to perform mariculture activities and reef restoration for later propogation will continue to do so even though it will never make them cash again? I doubt it.

If you want reefs to be looked after, make looking after it a profitable endeavour by opening up trade of maricultured pieces again

This does not take into account a third world country citizen trying to make money to feed his family today. He isn't worried about tomorrow, 401k, or if he will buy a vacation home. He will do whatever he has to. When the country lacks the ability to monitor where coral was harvested from then the only solution to stopping harvesters from pulling wild colonies and making them seem maricultured is by banning export. Yes mariculturing activities will stop, but if corals are not being removed from the reefs then there is no need for them to mariculture. Also what was being maricultured was for the sole sake of selling, not sustaining the reefs.

 

[Wh00pS32]

This does not take into account a third world country citizen trying to make money to feed his family today. He isn't worried about tomorrow, 401k, or if he will buy a vacation home. He will do whatever he has to. When the country lacks the ability to monitor where coral was harvested from then the only solution to stopping harvesters from pulling wild colonies and making them seem maricultured is by banning export. Yes mariculturing activities will stop, but if corals are not being removed from the reefs then there is no need for them to mariculture. Also what was being maricultured was for the sole sake of selling, not sustaining the reefs.

Actually around 10% of the output from the mariculture stations was being used to replant reefs before the ban.
Do you really think corals are not being removed from the reefs?
Smuggling is now rife and there are corals being exported from neighbouring countries that are definitely from indo and they are not being collected in an ethical way.

 

[Halal Hotdog]

Actually around 10% of the output from the mariculture stations was being used to replant reefs before the ban.
Do you really think corals are not being removed from the reefs?
Smuggling is now rife and there are corals being exported from neighbouring countries that are definitely from indo and they are not being collected in an ethical way.

Smugglers exist no matter what. They would be pulling wild colonies in either situation. Indonesia lacks the ability to effectively police what is wild harvested and made to look like mariculture. Time will tell if their policies are effective and permanent. Either way it is not a detriment to the average hobbyist.

 

[Hermie]

Someone mentioned the ivory trade and I have to agree. There's no doubt that reefs worldwide are in danger. And there will always be poachers of ivory or corals. The main concern to me is that wild reefs are not being decimated, and if that means stopping poachers, then so be it. Just because poaching is going on doesn't mean mankind should not protect wild endangerd rhinos and elephants.

Poaching means the poachers have to be stopped. And part of stopping poachers is EDUCATING the public (in many asian countries) that endangered animals do not have magical powers, so harvesting their "adrenochrome," horns or teeth is not going to do ANYTHING benecifial to a human. It's the same thing with coral, the market has to be educated that aquacultured coral are just as good if not BETTER than wild coral because the risks of wild hitchhikers and coral die-off from tank adjustment. I'm not an expert in this field of course but I want to be a responsible consumer, so if I KNOW that I am doing damage to wild reefs I don't want to participate.

 

[Wh00pS32]

Either way it is not a detriment to the average hobbyist.

Of course it's a detriment to the average hobbyist, just look at the prices being charged for what are very common and not at all rare corals.

 

[Halal Hotdog]

Of course it's a detriment to the average hobbyist, just look at the prices being charged for what are very common and not at all rare corals.

I think your definition of detriment is wildly different than mine. Just because some are price gouging a few corals does not mean the hobby is completely different. Those corals are still available for purchase, and it is only a few specific color variations. The rest of that species is still available at 'normal' prices.

 

[Wh00pS32]

And there will always be poachers of ivory or corals. The main concern to me is that wild reefs are not being decimated, and if that means stopping poachers, then so be it.

The thing is that collection of corals is not banned, it is still allowed for the supply of the domestic market in indo only export is banned.
Problem is that probably around 90% of corals collected are being smuggled to neighbouring countries and exported from there.