Is it a myth that tanks need to be cycled for corals?

[WallaceGrover]

Recently I set up a small pico tank with my roommate. We had some disagreements over it but I insisted it needed to be cycled before adding any sort of livestock including corals. My roommate disagreed and has had a tank before that he never cycled and he says his corals did just fine (he doesn't like fish and never added any to the tank). On this tank he okayed me adding a thumbnail amount of raw shrimp to the tank to jumpstart the cycle, along with some "bacteria in a bottle" since we started with dry everything.

The ammonia today (second day after being set up and after shrimp was added) was 0.5; nitrites and nitrates were both zero. He decided he doesn't want to wait for a cycle so he took the little piece of shrimp out and ordered some coral (super hardy softies and zoanthids, a mushroom or two). Is it okay to do a coral only tank without cycling? And since I already sort of started the cycle process should we be okay with some water changes before the coral get here later this week?

Thanks!

 

[KrisReef]

I’m surprised that this question has come up. Coral don’t produce nitrogen waste so I agree that the cycle doesn’t need to be done for them. Fish are a different animal and the waste they produce needs a nitrogen cycle to neutralize it.

I do wonder if coral requires the bacteria from live rock to thrive, but I haven’t seen any discussion on here other than this post that makes any similar claims.

Lets see what people think and what they know?

 

[Jekyl]

There's a reason mature tanks do better with coral. Some things can't be measured.

 

[Derrick0580]

I wouldn’t attempt any expensive or sensitive corals but you could easily get away with some simple zoas, mushrooms, or leathers.

 

[Townes_Van_Camp]

I have a bottled bacteria nano going right now. Its parameters look good.

0 ammonia
.01 phos
5 ppm trate.

I ghost feed daily. I just dropped in a monti digitata from a large very well established colony over a week ago. It's been under 200 par. I put it in at 150. If there is a monti that will grow anywhere at any time it's this.

It's not happy in any way.

 

[ninjamyst]

Technically, tank does not need to be cycled for corals. I have started plenty of tanks with new rocks, new water and corals immediately within the first 24 hours. Would I recommend it? No. Only do it if you are able to seed the tank with live rock from an established tank. Your tank needs mature biodiversity for all the other critters that ultimately the corals depend on long term. The corals may be fine for a week or two but as the ugly stages take over and instability occurs, the corals will suffer.

 

[OrlandoAIOReef]

Technically, tank does not need to be cycled for corals. I have started plenty of tanks with new rocks, new water and corals immediately within the first 24 hours. Would I recommend it? No. Only do it if you are able to seed the tank with live rock from an established tank. Your tank needs mature biodiversity for all the other critters that ultimately the corals depend on long term. The corals may be fine for a week or two but as the ugly stages take over and instability occurs, the corals will suffer.

I’m no expert but I think the BRS people said in one of their newer videos that corals add a certain biodiversity that can help prevent the ugly stages , in the newer cycling or biome video

 

[Jekyl]

I’m no expert but I think the BRS people said in one of their newer videos that corals add a certain biodiversity that can help prevent the ugly stages , in the newer cycling or biome video

That's like listening to phizer unfortunately.

 

[OrlandoAIOReef]

That's like listening to phizer unfortunately.

Lol I know I don’t buy everything they say , I mainly watch their investigates and experiments they do

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Lets see what people think and what they know?

I see what you did there...
According to the late JA, you do not have to cycle your tank for corals because corals are not affected by ammonia like fish are. ( but there was a time when we would use certain fish to actually help cycle a tank.)
But in a new tank you have have some more serious issues with corals in a tank that is immature. Diatoms, GHA etc. And with new rock you are going to have a battle for the niches, but coral can help with this, with the bacteria they bring to the table via the frag plugs.
I wouldn’t do any water changes until you finish your cycle unless things get way out of wack for whatever reason. You need to establish a bio load and you will probably need to ghost feed slightly.
Good luck, watch your parameters but don't over react.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

That's like listening to phizer unfortunately.

Lol... that's funny...
But yes adding corals CAN help with your biodiversity, but instead of adding a piece of live rock with loads of biodiversity, you are adding a teeny tiny minuscule amount with a piece of coral.
You do the math...

 

[Townes_Van_Camp]

I’m no expert but I think the BRS people said in one of their newer videos that corals add a certain biodiversity that can help prevent the ugly stages , in the newer cycling or biome video

That's how you help your friends sell coral to people who will need to buy more coral after all their coral dies.

 

[WallaceGrover]

I wouldn’t attempt any expensive or sensitive corals but you could easily get away with some simple zoas, mushrooms, or leathers.

I hope this is the case! My main concern is that the corals will need organics to either grow or thrive and the lack of nitrogen cycle bacteria won't allow that. Hopefully the populations will just very slowly build over time.

 

[srobertb]

I’m surprised that this question has come up. Coral don’t produce nitrogen waste so I agree that the cycle doesn’t need to be done for them. Fish are a different animal and the waste they produce needs a nitrogen cycle to neutralize it.

I do wonder if coral requires the bacteria from live rock to thrive, but I haven’t seen any discussion on here other than this post that makes any similar claims.

Lets see what people think and what they know?

“Corals don’t produce nitrogen waste” not on the level fish do but that which eats will inevitably poop and corals do eat. They also enjoy utilizing nitrate as an energy source. I tiny little tank will require something as small as a fruit fly to die in it to kick a cycle off.

A cycle, as defined by bacteria populating the surfaces in the aquarium sufficient to rapidly process ammonia into less harmful substances, is a foregone conclusion. It will happen. The question of “will corals live through it or experience ill effects” is an entirely different question and can be debated.

The more esoteric cycle that occurs over the first year or so and includes algae blooms, cyano, diatoms, rapid swings, hair algae, etc is a different matter entirely. It can be largely mitigated with acceptance, patience, and large water changes and the reality is that we wouldn’t have a hobby this popular if we still insisted on people wrapping their tanks in total darkness for 6-12 months before adding livestock.

As a tree hugging hippy-type waiting a week (or two) and a $20 test kit feels like the least I can do for an animal in my care.

 

[Superd513]

Recently I set up a small pico tank with my roommate. We had some disagreements over it but I insisted it needed to be cycled before adding any sort of livestock including corals. My roommate disagreed and has had a tank before that he never cycled and he says his corals did just fine (he doesn't like fish and never added any to the tank). On this tank he okayed me adding a thumbnail amount of raw shrimp to the tank to jumpstart the cycle, along with some "bacteria in a bottle" since we started with dry everything.

The ammonia today (second day after being set up and after shrimp was added) was 0.5; nitrites and nitrates were both zero. He decided he doesn't want to wait for a cycle so he took the little piece of shrimp out and ordered some coral (super hardy softies and zoanthids, a mushroom or two). Is it okay to do a coral only tank without cycling? And since I already sort of started the cycle process should we be okay with some water changes before the coral get here later this week?

Thanks!

Corals do not need to be cycled. Per Jake Adams from Reef Builders.

 

[BeanAnimal]

the reality is that we wouldn’t have a hobby this popular if we still insisted on people wrapping their tanks in total darkness for 6-12 months before adding livestock.

I don't recall ever seeing a 6-12 moths total darkness protocol, let alone it being popular. 1-3 month gradual startup - sure.

On the opposite end of the spectrum there appears to be more wholesale "emergency all of my fish are dead and coral will not live" threads than ever before.

Oddly those appear to coincide with the "pour a bottle in and populate your reef in the morning" advice doled out here daily by the "new generation" of reef keepers.

As for hobby popularity - cost of participation is prohibitive for many and the "new must follow" methods are far more involved than what they used to be. Even so, the hobby has always been popular.

As for "cycling" and coral. I think that was addressed fairly well above in both context to the natural nitrogen cycle and the cycle of ecosystem maturity.

As it were, I am sure coral can be grown in a relatively simple and contextually sterile environment (think aquaculture) if water quality, feeding and lighting are the prime focus.

Healthy coral can also be grown in a fully mature system (a reef) where water quality and the micro and macro environment are in balance.

Oddly there appears to be a large badlands in between. When the system has added macro and micro fauna and starts to transition from the sterile "aqua culture" setup to something resembling a reef, there is a LOT that can go wrong.

 

[srobertb]

I don't recall ever seeing a 6-12 moths total darkness protocol, let alone it being popular. 1-3 month gradual startup - sure.

On the opposite end of the spectrum there appears to be more wholesale "emergency all of my fish are dead and coral will not live" threads than ever before.

Oddly those appear to coincide with the "pour a bottle in and populate your reef in the morning" advice doled out here daily by the "new generation" of reef keepers.

As for hobby popularity - cost of participation is prohibitive for many and the "new must follow" methods are far more involved than what they used to be. Even so, the hobby has always been popular.

As for "cycling" and coral. I think that was addressed fairly well above in both context to the natural nitrogen cycle and the cycle of ecosystem maturity.

As it were, I am sure coral can be grown in a relatively simple and contextually sterile environment (think aquaculture) if water quality, feeding and lighting are the prime focus.

Healthy coral can also be grown in a fully mature system (a reef) where water quality and the micro and macro environment are in balance.

Oddly there appears to be a large badlands in between. When the system has added macro and micro fauna and starts to transition from the sterile "aqua culture" setup to something resembling a reef, there is a LOT that can go wrong.

Mileage may vary I suppose. First all, love your whole overflow system. Thanks for that.

About 10-15 years ago when I was starting out I was told by MULTIPLE older reefers to wrap my tank in newspaper paper for 6-12 months. I recall speaking with “newer” reefers at the time and being told that was “old school.”

I have never had a hard and fast rule. I’ve always gone until the tank feels right; a month to months before adding things. I have had good success. My only “crash” was a giant Eunice worm that required a tear down to remove

I can ABSOLUTELY setup a quick 5 gallon and throw some light and coral in it and have it do ok. But it will inevitably cycle. there will be algae and problems.

We are seemingly diametrically opposed on the subject of fauna and micro fauna. I would call it my biggest point of stability and success. Obviously managing fish bioload is key but all the creatures in my tank are in balance and populations rise and fall naturally. They account for and balance for the remainder in a very complicated equation.

We would also disagree that this hobby has gotten more complicated. We have made it more complicated as we have sought more control over something that intrinsically balances itself. People want 15 tangs in a 120g tank and 25 colonies of wild SPS corals and they want them all to grow an inch an hour so they throw money and time to twist and bend systems until the break.

I’m looking at a beautiful tank that gets bi-yearly water changes and filtration is provided by an IM filter sock roller I just installed and a bag of chemipure I needed to change 2 months ago. I have no idea what the NO3, calcium, Ph, or even salinity is.

It’s like any hobby. I can buy an old car and love it and drive it and enjoy it or I can spend tons of time modding it and racing and cry when it explodes. That doesn’t mean the hobby has gotten more complex, it means some people derive enjoyment from the complexity.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I hope this is the case! My main concern is that the corals will need organics to either grow or thrive and the lack of nitrogen cycle bacteria won't allow that. Hopefully the populations will just very slowly build over time.

*The nitrogen cycle just makes nitrogen in the tank safe for fish and inverts (by converting nitrogen in the form of ammonia into nitrite and then nitrate). Corals use nitrogen as food - this can be in any form, so larger amounts of ammonia in the tank (aka uncycled) is fine in that respect. In fact, coral farmers dose ammonia to their tanks since they often lack enough fish to create needed ammonia...

*Nitrifying bacteria in itself is not necessary for corals -- there is evidence that in mature tanks, there is little of the nitrifying bacteria found in new systems because it's been outcompeted/replaced by other biological methods.

 

[Amber.]

Mileage may vary I suppose. First all, love your whole overflow system. Thanks for that.

About 10-15 years ago when I was starting out I was told by MULTIPLE older reefers to wrap my tank in newspaper paper for 6-12 months. I recall speaking with “newer” reefers at the time and being told that was “old school.”

I have never had a hard and fast rule. I’ve always gone until the tank feels right; a month to months before adding things. I have had good success. My only “crash” was a giant Eunice worm that required a tear down to remove

I can ABSOLUTELY setup a quick 5 gallon and throw some light and coral in it and have it do ok. But it will inevitably cycle. there will be algae and problems.

We are seemingly diametrically opposed on the subject of fauna and micro fauna. I would call it my biggest point of stability and success. Obviously managing fish bioload is key but all the creatures in my tank are in balance and populations rise and fall naturally. They account for and balance for the remainder in a very complicated equation.

We would also disagree that this hobby has gotten more complicated. We have made it more complicated as we have sought more control over something that intrinsically balances itself. People want 15 tangs in a 120g tank and 25 colonies of wild SPS corals and they want them all to grow an inch an hour so they throw money and time to twist and bend systems until the break.

I’m looking at a beautiful tank that gets bi-yearly water changes and filtration is provided by an IM filter sock roller I just installed and a bag of chemipure I needed to change 2 months ago. I have no idea what the NO3, calcium, Ph, or even salinity is.

It’s like any hobby. I can buy an old car and love it and drive it and enjoy it or I can spend tons of time modding it and racing and cry when it explodes. That doesn’t mean the hobby has gotten more complex, it means some people derive enjoyment from the complexity.

Money. Money has always been the deciding factor in whether or not complexity solves problems. When there is a problem there is a company to fix said problem. Then there are companies that fix those problems that those problems create. It’s an endless cycle.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I hope this is the case! My main concern is that the corals will need organics to either grow or thrive and the lack of nitrogen cycle bacteria won't allow that. Hopefully the populations will just very slowly build over time.

You'll also need to feed the tank to get nutrients up in the absence of fish...