Is it advisable to run other medication(s) while running copper (Seachem Cupramine) in QT?

[ssunthar]

Hi Experts, wanted to know if it is ok to use other medication(s) e.g. Prazi, ParaGuard, etc. while running copper (Seachem Cupramine) in QT? Thanks.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi Experts, wanted to know if it is ok to use other medication(s) e.g. Prazi, ParaGuard, etc. while running copper (Seachem Cupramine) in QT? Thanks.

I always advise people not to do that. Stress can be additive, and while the stress on the fish from copper alone is usually tolerated, in conjunction with the low dissolved oxygen seen with prazi, it is even more stressful. Cupramine and Paragaurd is a definite NO. It contains glutaraldehyde which may act as a reducing agent like formaldehyde does, releasing toxic amounts of free copper when used with Cupramine.

Generally, protozoan diseases are more common and kill fish much faster than metazoan diseases. Therefore, I prefer to treat with copper and then with prazi.

Jay

 

[ssunthar]

I always advise people not to do that. Stress can be additive, and while the stress on the fish from copper alone is usually tolerated, in conjunction with the low dissolved oxygen seen with prazi, it is even more stressful. Cupramine and Paragaurd is a definite NO. It contains glutaraldehyde which may act as a reducing agent like formaldehyde does, releasing toxic amounts of free copper when used with Cupramine.

Generally, protozoan diseases are more common and kill fish much faster than metazoan diseases. Therefore, I prefer to treat with copper and then with prazi.

Jay

Hi Jay, It is very clear, thank you very much for explaining.

One other quick check if you dont mind.. i am running Cupramine in my QT at the recommended therapeutic level of 0.5 (tested with Salifert) for the past 25 days. My question.. is 0.5 the right level as I am also noticing suggestions that the level should be much higher.. like 1.5 or even 2.0. Appriciate your comments and suggestions.

Thanks.

 

[jmichaelh7]

I always advise people not to do that. Stress can be additive, and while the stress on the fish from copper alone is usually tolerated, in conjunction with the low dissolved oxygen seen with prazi, it is even more stressful. Cupramine and Paragaurd is a definite NO. It contains glutaraldehyde which may act as a reducing agent like formaldehyde does, releasing toxic amounts of free copper when used with Cupramine.

Generally, protozoan diseases are more common and kill fish much faster than metazoan diseases. Therefore, I prefer to treat with copper and then with prazi.

Jay

I wonder if that’s why my anthias died. I ran copper power and when I dosed general cure by api he didn’t tolerate well

 

[ssunthar]

I wonder if that’s why my anthias died. I ran copper power and when I dosed general cure by api he didn’t tolerate well

It could be because of the tolerance level too... larned that different species of fish have different tolerance level to copper... please have a look at this article (https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.191/)

Thanks.

 

[ylreefer]

Hi Jay, It is very clear, thank you very much for explaining.

One other quick check if you dont mind.. i am running Cupramine in my QT at the recommended therapeutic level of 0.5 (tested with Salifert) for the past 25 days. My question.. is 0.5 the right level as I am also noticing suggestions that the level should be much higher.. like 1.5 or even 2.0. Appriciate your comments and suggestions.

Thanks.

The recommended level of cupramin is 0.5. I've never used it at higher than 0.54 (accidentally for 1 day).

If memory serves me correctly the 1.5 /2.0 could be copper power. Or another brand of copper.

 

[ssunthar]

Oh ok. Thanks.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I wonder if that’s why my anthias died. I ran copper power and when I dosed general cure by api he didn’t tolerate well

Tough to say, but always increase aeration when dosing Prazipro or general cure.
Jay

 

[ssunthar]

I always advise people not to do that. Stress can be additive, and while the stress on the fish from copper alone is usually tolerated, in conjunction with the low dissolved oxygen seen with prazi, it is even more stressful. Cupramine and Paragaurd is a definite NO. It contains glutaraldehyde which may act as a reducing agent like formaldehyde does, releasing toxic amounts of free copper when used with Cupramine.

Generally, protozoan diseases are more common and kill fish much faster than metazoan diseases. Therefore, I prefer to treat with copper and then with prazi.

Jay

Hi Jay, I am completing the copper cycle (I am using Cupramine) and have 2 quick clarifications... hope you don't mind:
1. As I don't have a 2nd QT.. to clear copper in my current QT, I am planning to do a big WC and to use CupriSorb to remove left over traces of copper, will this be sufficient? And my copper test show 0, will be safe for me to move the fish over to DT?
2. I am planning to run API GENERAL CURE with MELAFIX and PIMAFIX together (the use of MELAFIX and PIMAFIX with GENERAL CURE is an option recommended by API as secondary treatment), in your opinion is this OK? And can I do this while I am removing left over copper using CupriSorb? Just wondering is CupriSorb will absorb GENERAL CURE, MELAFIX and PIMAFIX as well?
Thanks in advance.
Marry Christmas.

 

[ssunthar]

I always advise people not to do that. Stress can be additive, and while the stress on the fish from copper alone is usually tolerated, in conjunction with the low dissolved oxygen seen with prazi, it is even more stressful. Cupramine and Paragaurd is a definite NO. It contains glutaraldehyde which may act as a reducing agent like formaldehyde does, releasing toxic amounts of free copper when used with Cupramine.

Generally, protozoan diseases are more common and kill fish much faster than metazoan diseases. Therefore, I prefer to treat with copper and then with prazi.

Jay

Hi Jay, A few more questions came to mt mind... as this is my fist time doing it... hope you don't mind:
1. How do I know that my fishes that underwent copper treatment are ready to go into DT? 0 level of copper is good enough? What else I should be careful about?
2. As mine is a mixed reef, what will be the harm caused if I accidently interoduced copper into DT?

Thank you.
Merry Christmas.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi Jay, I am completing the copper cycle (I am using Cupramine) and have 2 quick clarifications... hope you don't mind:
1. As I don't have a 2nd QT.. to clear copper in my current QT, I am planning to do a big WC and to use CupriSorb to remove left over traces of copper, will this be sufficient? And my copper test show 0, will be safe for me to move the fish over to DT?
2. I am planning to run API GENERAL CURE with MELAFIX and PIMAFIX together (the use of MELAFIX and PIMAFIX with GENERAL CURE is an option recommended by API as secondary treatment), in your opinion is this OK? And can I do this while I am removing left over copper using CupriSorb? Just wondering is CupriSorb will absorb GENERAL CURE, MELAFIX and PIMAFIX as well?
Thanks in advance.
Marry Christmas.

1) It is unclear to me, will you be putting the any invertebrates into the tank that held copper? If you are just moving fish out, that is fine, if you want the coppered tank to be safe for invertebrates, that requires a precision test kit like the Hanna LR test, and then ensure you have a reading of less than 0.01

2) I would skip the Melafix and Pimafix, they are just botanical tonics that contain oils. I'm not convinced they have any benefit against active disease in marine fish. If your fish show signs of bacterial disease, you should treat them with a true antibiotic. I would not mix cuprisorb with general cure as I don't know how it reacts with metronidazole...probably o.k., but why risk it?

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi Jay, A few more questions came to mt mind... as this is my fist time doing it... hope you don't mind:
1. How do I know that my fishes that underwent copper treatment are ready to go into DT? 0 level of copper is good enough? What else I should be careful about?
2. As mine is a mixed reef, what will be the harm caused if I accidently interoduced copper into DT?

Thank you.
Merry Christmas.

1) I usually lower the copper level in the treatment tank and then wait two weeks. If the fish show no disease during that time, I feel safer moving them out.

2) The harm of accidentally introduced copper is completely related to the amount of copper that is moved. A tiny amount of copper on the water on the skin of the fish for example poses no risk. Pouring a couple of gallons of water from your QT into your DT could be an issue. When I was a kid, my little sister dropped a copper penny into my tank and I didn't see it. That proved highly toxic!

Merry Christmas to you!

Jay

 

[ssunthar]

1) It is unclear to me, will you be putting the any invertebrates into the tank that held copper? If you are just moving fish out, that is fine, if you want the coppered tank to be safe for invertebrates, that requires a precision test kit like the Hanna LR test, and then ensure you have a reading of less than 0.01

2) I would skip the Melafix and Pimafix, they are just botanical tonics that contain oils. I'm not convinced they have any benefit against active disease in marine fish. If your fish show signs of bacterial disease, you should treat them with a true antibiotic. I would not mix cuprisorb with general cure as I don't know how it reacts with metronidazole...probably o.k., but why risk it?

Jay

Hi Jay, Thank you very much.
1. No, my QT is meant for fish only QT.
2. Noted with thanks.
Appreciate your help.

 

[ssunthar]

1) I usually lower the copper level in the treatment tank and then wait two weeks. If the fish show no disease during that time, I feel safer moving them out.

2) The harm of accidentally introduced copper is completely related to the amount of copper that is moved. A tiny amount of copper on the water on the skin of the fish for example poses no risk. Pouring a couple of gallons of water from your QT into your DT could be an issue. When I was a kid, my little sister dropped a copper penny into my tank and I didn't see it. That proved highly toxic!

Merry Christmas to you!

Jay

Hi Jay, Appreciate all your help. Thank you very much.
Merry Christmas.