is it possible for live sand to be cleaned-replaced- in a running tank?

[reef4life!!!]

Hi everyone and happy new year!!! I have a 65 gallon tank with live rock and live sand which is running for 7-8 years.So i am trying for the past 3 months to lower down my dang phosphates in order to get some corals and they don't seem to come down.My nitrates went down from 80 to 2-5ppm and they for the past 2 months are stable at that range. I've tried nitraphos(auquaforest) 50% water change at the begging, last month i placed phosguard(seachem) inside my canister filter and 5 days ago i started microbacter clean too.My question is could i remove-or replace - the whole sand(or at least as much as i can without disrupting the rocks) and clean in order to release any nitrates-phosphates the sand has?

*i use salifert test kits*


current setup:
1 eheim canister filter with mostly ceramics and 2 sponges
1 deltec mc600 hang on skimmer
live rock
live sand(i don't remever correctly but i thing it's aragonite)
tank is running for 7-8 years(poorly maintenance)

Current livestock: (i added the clowns almost 2 months ago and the rest of the fish 1 month ago, because i lost all my previous fishes from ich)
1 carpenteri wrasse
2 occelaris clowns
1 female meleagris
1 small japonicus

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

Calling on the sand rinse thread god @brandon429

long story short pull everything out. Rinse the sand many times and replace. Many have done it (including me) and very few of any issues pop up.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

The problem is the disrupting the rock part. I would suggest removing everything except the sandbed before cleaning it. I have tried a partial sandbed removal and unsurprisingly it didn't work. Nitrates exploded and I lost my urchin shortly after. Removing livestock, rocks and corals into totes with old SW before removing the sandbed is the only way I have seen to prevent all the nasty stuff from being released and making everything worse.

A full rip clean can make a massive impact on the health of your sandbed and overall reef without killing off a significant portion of the bacteria. Search for "sand rinse thread". We have dozens of examples of successful rip cleans

 

[reef4life!!!]

The problem is the disrupting the rock part. I would suggest removing everything except the sandbed before cleaning it. I have tried a partial sandbed removal and unsurprisingly it didn't work. Nitrates exploded and I lost my urchin shortly after. Removing livestock, rocks and corals into totes with old SW before removing the sandbed is the only way I have seen to prevent all the nasty stuff from being released and making everything worse.

A full rip clean can make a massive impact on the health of your sandbed and overall reef without killing off a significant portion of the bacteria. Search for "sand rinse thread". We have dozens of examples of successful rip cleans

i don't really want to pull everything,isn't this gonna work otherwise?I am afraid i will stress my fishes too much...

Also do i have to rinse it with RODI water or is it ok to rinse with tap water

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

Again its a choice you have to make but I wouldn't worry about stressing them too much. Drain out half the tank and remove what you can rock wise to catch the fish in the rockless tank. Rinse with tap is absolutely fine and a final rinse in RO is advised. I think I rinsed it 5 times in tap so that it was clear.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-official-sand-rinse-thread-aka-one-against-many.230281/page-38

Read up on it and post a follow up if you go through with it. If any questions pop up let us know!

 

[reef4life!!!]

Again its a choice you have to make but I wouldn't worry about stressing them too much. Drain out half the tank and remove what you can rock wise to catch the fish in the rockless tank. Rinse with tap is absolutely fine and a final rinse in RO is advised. I think I rinsed it 5 times in tap so that it was clear.

At least after all this work could this help bring down the phosphates a lot? it is 1.0ppm right now,so could they go down to at least 0.5ppm?

 

[LegendaryCG]

I wouldn’t attempt to deep clean 8 year old sand in a running system myself.. I think you’re likely to release a huge amount of tank pollution..

 

[reef4life!!!]

I wouldn’t attempt to deep clean 8 year old sand in a running system myself.. I think you’re likely to release a huge amount of tank pollution..

i am afraid myself too because like 3 months ago i did my first vacuum over 8 years and days later every fish had ich in the tank and everything died.I don't know if these 2 are connected though.

 

[StlSalt]

You can also suck the sand and junk in it out of the tank with a siphon, dump water out through a strainer, rinse the sand you capture and replace. I do this when I do a water change sometimes in different areas of the tank. I clean a small bit at a time and don't have to worry about the cloud of debris because it's sucked up with the sand and water in the siphon.

 

[LegendaryCG]

i am afraid myself too because like 3 months ago i did my first vacuum over 8 years and days later every fish had ich in the tank and everything died.I don't know if these 2 are connected though.

Id probably pick an area and vaccum It good like 10% of the sand and next time clean a different 10%..

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

You can also suck the sand and junk in it out of the tank with a siphon, dump water out through a strainer, rinse the sand you capture and replace. I do this when I do a water change sometimes in different areas of the tank. I clean a small bit at a time and don't have to worry about the cloud of debris because it's sucked up with the sand and water in the siphon.

The key here is a small bit at a time. That was my major issue when I did a 1/3 of my sandbed at once the first time around. Destabilized my tank and sent nitrates through the roof.

Rip clean worked for me the second time and tank bounced back quick.

 

[reef4life!!!]

Alright then i will try to vaccum a little bit every time but i really want something faster than that.I want these phosphates to come down so i might try to rinse the whole sand.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

Brandon or others that have done it will get around to posting but check out the link above and read through it. If done right you essentially are starting fresh and can get into better habits of cleaning the sand bed. Ramp up photoperiod on lights if you do a rinse.

Don't shoot me if you disagree. Shoot the people who convinced me into doing it the first time as they made me a believer. I would also do a deep dive into why your phosphates are high. This is a bandaid to the problem but phosphates will likely climb overtime if you don't solve the root cause of the issue(s).

 

[StlSalt]

Skimming can help remove organic wastes before they break down into inorganic phosphates. Keep a clean skimmer and skimming a little wetter might help. You might already be doing that, I wasn't and once I started cleaning the collection cup weekley and breaking it down completely every month or two to clean the impeller I saw lower phos and trates, not much but every bit helps. I ultimately had to add GFO and Sulpher Denitrator to keep mine in check. This year I hope to add a sump to my system so I don't need all this hang on equipment I'm using. I'd like to have a refugium for excess nutrient export.

 

[reef4life!!!]

Brandon or others that have done it will get around to posting but check out the link above and read through it. If done right you essentially are starting fresh and can get into better habits of cleaning the sand bed. Ramp up photoperiod on lights if you do a rinse.

Don't shoot me if you disagree. Shoot the people who convinced me into doing it the first time as they made me a believer. I would also do a deep dive into why your phosphates are high. This is a bandaid to the problem but phosphates will likely climb overtime if you don't solve the root cause of the issue(s).

haha yeah the problem with my phosphates is that i don't where they are coming from.Even with phosguard and regular 10% wc every week they don't come down. I feed 2 times a day mostly spirulina flakes(because it's the only thing my meleagris eats) and my RODI water when mixed with my red sea salt every time is 0. I really don't know what to do with those phosphates

 

[reef4life!!!]

Skimming can help remove organic wastes before they break down into inorganic phosphates. Keep a clean skimmer and skimming a little wetter might help. You might already be doing that, I wasn't and once I started cleaning the collection cup weekley and breaking it down completely every month or two to clean the impeller I saw lower phos and trates, not much but every bit helps. I ultimately had to add GFO and Sulpher Denitrator to keep mine in check. This year I hope to add a sump to my system so I don't need all this hang on equipment I'm using. I'd like to have a refugium for excess nutrient export.

i am cleaning my cup every week(some times even 2 times a week) and once a month i clean the skimmer but i don't see any difference.Unfortuanately everyone tells me to buy GFO in this forums but in my country i can't find it so i picked phosguard because i've read it's very good.I really want a refugium too but i don't have sump unfortunately

 

[Super Fly]

I'd agree with others to vacuum sections at a time or u can also instead replace the vacuumed sections with new clean sand. Otherwise u can always add a GFO reactor however don't lower PO4 too quick or else livestock will have adverse reactions.

 

[Super Fly]

Unfortuanately everyone tells me to buy GFO in this forums but in my country i can't find it so i picked phosguard

just read ur post, can u buy Rowaphos in Greece? ...Phosguard didn't work for me, it may have been because I used it in a mesh bag instead of reactor.

 

[reef4life!!!]

just read ur post, can u buy Rowaphos in Greece? ...Phosguard didn't work for me, it may have been because I used it in a mesh bag instead of reactor.

Yeah i can buy rowaphos you think this will help?

yeah i have it in a canister filter inside a sock so this might be the problem.I really don't know what to do.

i will probably vaccum a litle bit every time but i don't really think this will work so good.