Is it possible to combine Spectracide and Seachem Phosphate additive

[delv2323]

I manually dose Spectracide and Seachem phosphate daily. It would be much simpler if I could dose a solution of it with a single dosing pump. Are there any problems with making a diluted solution of the two?

 

[aeras1131]

I do not know the answer to that question. Could you explain clearly what problem you are currently trying to fix?

 

[reeferfoxx]

I've heard this asked before and I believe the answer is yes. It's when you mix sodium nitrate and potassium phosphate that a reaction will occur. I would wait for Randy to confirm.

Edit: i was answering your title and not your post. It should be fine to mix both in dilution.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, they can be mixed.

 

[delv2323]

TY all!

 

[Hitman]

Yes, they can be mixed.

How would you recommend the mix?
Just throwing numbers out there so say
4 tbs Spectracide into 1 liter RO/DI water
And
?? Amount of Seachem Phosphate

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How would you recommend the mix?
Just throwing numbers out there so say
4 tbs Spectracide into 1 liter RO/DI water
And
?? Amount of Seachem Phosphate

You are using this?

http://www.seachem.com/flourish-phosporus.php

 

[delv2323]

I stopped dosing a mixture. It became cloudy with what I assume was a blobby bacterial mass growing in it...back to separate dosing.

 

[Hitman]

You are using this?

http://www.seachem.com/flourish-phosporus.php

That is what I’m looking to dose yes sir.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That is what I’m looking to dose yes sir.

The Seachem product is about 4,000 ppm phosphate.

Potassium nitrate is 61.3% nitrate.

If you put 10 grams of KNO3 into a liter of RO/DI, it will be about 6.13 g/L nitrate, or 6,130 ppm nitrate.

The ratio you want to use will ultimately be determined by the tank, but I can give you the Redfield ratio, which is about 10.4 weight parts nitrate to 1 weight part phosphate.

Thus, you want ~587 ppm (587 mg/L) phosphate in that stock solution. That would come from 147 mL of the Seachem product.

So in 1 liter, add 10 g KNO3 and 147 mL of the Seachem product, and RO/DI to 1 liter total, giving a final concentration of

6,130 ppm nitrate
587 ppm phosphate

 

[Hitman]

I was reading last night about a product called Thrive it’s a all in one PO4 and NO3 additive for planted aquariums. Basically it sounds like the mix you just spoke of with additional stuff.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, you may not need or want those trace elements (copper, zinc, etc.), but if you are sure you do, it may be a fine way to go.

 

[Hitman]

FWIW, you may not need or want those trace elements (copper, zinc, etc.), but if you are sure you do, it may be a fine way to go.

No I really don’t want to intoduce those. I’m glad you caught that!!! I sure wish I paid more attention in chemistry back in the day!!! Your the best @Randy Holmes-Farley !!!!!! We are so lucky to have you on this site!!!

 

[aarbutina]

The Seachem product is about 4,000 ppm phosphate.

Potassium nitrate is 61.3% nitrate.

If you put 10 grams of KNO3 into a liter of RO/DI, it will be about 6.13 g/L nitrate, or 6,130 ppm nitrate.

The ratio you want to use will ultimately be determined by the tank, but I can give you the Redfield ratio, which is about 10.4 weight parts nitrate to 1 weight part phosphate.

Thus, you want ~587 ppm (587 mg/L) phosphate in that stock solution. That would come from 147 mL of the Seachem product.

So in 1 liter, add 10 g KNO3 and 147 mL of the Seachem product, and RO/DI to 1 liter total, giving a final concentration of

6,130 ppm nitrate
587 ppm phosphate

Hey Randy, what is the best way to determine the ratio that the tank wants? I was reading a thread on another forum where you stated that you wouldn't recommend using the redfield ratio for these types of addition (which you are kinda of doing here as well), but for those of use who are interesting in experimenting with nitrate and phosphate dosing how do you recommend finding the right ratio that works for each tank. In that same thread there were folks talking about how when they started dosing a combination of nitrate and phospate, their phosphate levels crashed due to the now available phosphate in the system.

My situation is this, I have undetectable levels of nitrate and phospate in my system. While my SPS are growing, their coloration leaves something to be desired. I have recently tried upping my feeding for both fish and corals and have been adding aminos (acropower) to "dirty up" my water. Still my nitrates and phospates are undetectable (just being used to fast I suppose). I am interested in trying to dose nitrates and phosphate (I actually already have the seachem flourish) but every time I think about doing it I talk myself out of it. It seems like a lot could go wrong rather quickly, if you don't get it right, especially in a small system. Any additional guidance you could give on this would be much appreciated.

I also want to ask this, do you personally dose to maintain a specific nitrate and phosphate level? I seem to remember reading somewhere that you don't but I just don't remember where that was.

 

[Hitman]

I thought I read somewhere Flourish had copper in it?

 

[aarbutina]

I thought I read somewhere Flourish had copper in it?

I think there are two different Seachem products. One has copper and the other doesn’t. The seachem flourish phosphorus (linked to above) from my understanding does not contain copper.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey Randy, what is the best way to determine the ratio that the tank wants? I was reading a thread on another forum where you stated that you wouldn't recommend using the redfield ratio for these types of addition (which you are kinda of doing here as well), but for those of use who are interesting in experimenting with nitrate and phosphate dosing how do you recommend finding the right ratio that works for each tank. In that same thread there were folks talking about how when they started dosing a combination of nitrate and phospate, their phosphate levels crashed due to the now available phosphate in the system.

My situation is this, I have undetectable levels of nitrate and phospate in my system. While my SPS are growing, their coloration leaves something to be desired. I have recently tried upping my feeding for both fish and corals and have been adding aminos (acropower) to "dirty up" my water. Still my nitrates and phospates are undetectable (just being used to fast I suppose). I am interested in trying to dose nitrates and phosphate (I actually already have the seachem flourish) but every time I think about doing it I talk myself out of it. It seems like a lot could go wrong rather quickly, if you don't get it right, especially in a small system. Any additional guidance you could give on this would be much appreciated.

I also want to ask this, do you personally dose to maintain a specific nitrate and phosphate level? I seem to remember reading somewhere that you don't but I just don't remember where that was.

Trial and error. Starting with a mix like this is fine if both are bottomed out, and then adjust to add more of less of one of them to fit the needs.

Even if the Redfield ratio said anything useful about the ratio taken up by something living in the tank, it says nothing about other export methods (such as denitrification) that use one and not the other.

That's why so many people find it useful to dose just one (usually N) and not both.

I have never dosed nitrate or phosphate. My tank never ran low in nutrients (maybe because I let detritus collect for years in my sump and refugia). I also rarely measured either one, but they were never undetectable when I measured them. My last Triton test showed 0.033 ppm phosphate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No I really don’t want to intoduce those. I’m glad you caught that!!! I sure wish I paid more attention in chemistry back in the day!!! Your the best @Randy Holmes-Farley !!!!!! We are so lucky to have you on this site!!!

Thanks!

 

[aarbutina]

Trial and error. Starting with a mix like this is fine if both are bottomed out, and then adjust to add more of less of one of them to fit the needs.

Even if the Redfield ratio said anything useful about the ratio taken up by something living in the tank, it says nothing about other export methods (such as denitrification) that use one and not the other.

That's why so many people find it useful to dose just one (usually N) and not both.

I have never dosed nitrate or phosphate. My tank never ran low in nutrients (maybe because I let detritus collect for years in my sump and refugia). I also rarely measured either one, but they were never undetectable when I measured them. My last Triton test showed 0.033 ppm phosphate.

Thanks for the info Randy.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for the info Randy.

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing.