IS IT TRUE THAT 80% OF PEOPLE WILL HAVE FISH LOSSES DUE TO DISEASE/PARASITES IN FIRST 8 MONTHS IF DONT QUARANTINE ?

[MnFish1]

Whats your Best Buy for Monday lol

 

[HuduVudu]

Whats your Best Buy for Monday lol

D@mm!t you have to tag me so I know that you are posting for me.

I only trade one stock.

Sorry, what I say probably won't be of much use.

One interesting thought though, is the last time oil took a dump the news started pushing the coof hard. I think a lot of people thought the market drop was from the virus not the Saudia Russia price war. Fri. oil dropped again hard, this very shortly after the strategic reserves were opened up, and presumably sold on the open market. WOOP POW a scary new variant appeared. Hmmmm.

SMDH. Propaganda is real.

EDIT: I do have a long term position in BitCoin, but I don't trade that.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks alot - So - of course every answer brings new questions (to me anyway) - At what point in the numbers above - with the Grade B SE asian fish - does the mortality clock start. When they are taken out of the ocean? When they hit the LFS? Or after they are sold to the reefer?

Also I'm going to ask you to make another guess if thats ok. Lets say someone followed all of the recommendations you listed that lower the rate - except they did not use Medication unless disease was present (I.e. they can use observation, observation with treatment when needed or nothing) - just not prophylactic medication. PS - I now this is a lot different for an EDIT - PUBLIC aquarium - as compared to John Doe's reef tank. It is very clear - and the rationale is very clear - why a large aquarium would have an excellent biosecurity program.

Lastly - you say your annual mortality - makes me wonder - do you guys ship your fish directly from the 'source' - I assume you do. So - I'm thinking your mortality means 25-30 percent of fish out of the ocean. Is that correct - And happy Thanksgiving - and thanks for all of your hard work on behalf of the hobby!

I’ve worked as an importer many years ago. The losses don’t hit them very hard. Fish are resilient and it takes time for them to expend that. Losses start at the LFS and seem to peak a week or so later. Remember, many diseases are actually picked up at the importers and at some LFS.

Only medicating if a disease shows up is risky. Ich can remain chronic for months a months and then suddenly break. The only thing I don’t do is treat with antibiotics (unless I see a reason to).

I import directly sometimes (Japan and Australia) but more often use a couple of importers I’ve worked with for years.

Jay

 

[Paul B]

IMHO - not every 'new reefer' is a 'noob'

I disagree. Every new person at anyything is a Noob which is short for "New Be" regardless of skill level. It is just a term to denote very new participation at any particular endeavor.

But you can take that apart any way you like as I won't comment on it again.

I got a 3 D printer last year so I am a Noob when it comes to that. Like as HuduVudu suggested, If I dated a Supermodel, I would be a Noob at it. Albeit, a very happy Noob.

 

[MnFish1]

I disagree. Every new person at anyything is a Noob which is short for "New Be" regardless of skill level. It is just a term to denote very new participation at any particular endeavor.

But you can take that apart any way you like as I won't comment on it again.

I got a 3 D printer last year so I am a Noob when it comes to that. Like as HuduVudu suggested, I dated a Supermodel, I would be a Noob at it. Albeit, a very happy Noob.

Great - you're using my words - by that definition - we are both noobs. LOL. I know what Noob is short for - newbie - But - as I said the main point of my response to you - is that we agree on 95 percent of the practice. Not as much of the science

 

[ilawis]

Started my tank in January. Haven't had a single fish, urchin or Coral loss with the exception of one fish that got eaten by a Moray eel of which I was expecting to happen. (No I didn't put it in as a feeder fish it was a fish called a trumpeter similar to a sardine that I caught when fishing)
Fish I get from the sea go direct into the tank no aculmation. Fish from the store or from other people's shutdowns get a drip until it's %
80% my water 20% theirs them direct to display tank. Corals get either a fresh water dip or Coral dip solution then into the tank.
I have brissleworm and tubeworm I did spot a head of aptasia the other day but it's gone missing when i rearranged the rock. But otherwise all happy and healthy (system is 1700ltr)

 

[Paul B]

Ilawis thats because your fish are immune and keep the immunity they all had in the sea which is what is needed for all fish.

We ourselves make our fish sick.

 

[MnFish1]

Started my tank in January. Haven't had a single fish, urchin or Coral loss with the exception of one fish that got eaten by a Moray eel of which I was expecting to happen. (No I didn't put it in as a feeder fish it was a fish called a trumpeter similar to a sardine that I caught when fishing)
Fish I get from the sea go direct into the tank no aculmation. Fish from the store or from other people's shutdowns get a drip until it's %
80% my water 20% theirs them direct to display tank. Corals get either a fresh water dip or Coral dip solution then into the tank.
I have brissleworm and tubeworm I did spot a head of aptasia the other day but it's gone missing when i rearranged the rock. But otherwise all happy and healthy (system is 1700ltr)

Curious - how long do you do a freshwater dip for hard corals. My guess is that the time it would take to kill parasites - would be long enough to damage coral significantly (depending on the type)

 

[brandon429]

Wow, the emotional highs and the lows....

I just euthanized my first fish. :-( Have nearly a dozen years of freshwater experience and, I suppose I always had good luck. I never had to euthanize before, came close, but they'd usually recover. Took a few years off from the hobby, decided to try saltwater. Spent the last 7 months...

www.reef2reef.com

whats the operating timeline there


am listing that to show when I relay data it’s from pattern watching in the forums. I’ve seen six more recently too thats just one happening by right now. It’s a pattern, and it doesn’t matter if others disagree or not it’s my pattern noted and all my cycling tanks hear about this pattern. within eight months we *tend* to hear about losses most of the time, 8/10 quarantine skippers report some type of challenge and it may or may not be a total wipeout it’s just eighty percent headaches of some degree expected within eight months of setup. By taking time to cycle tanks and stay up with the outcomes I’m noticing this pattern, I call it like I see it.


it doesn’t have to be eight months to the date, but that’s not 24 months at work or three, 7-8 months give or take is the approximation I like to work with and pick out from the myriad disease posts available for scanning nowadays.

 

[HuduVudu]

@brandon429 It's not new, you're just new to it.

Break a leg.

 

[ying yang]

Wow, the emotional highs and the lows....

I just euthanized my first fish. :-( Have nearly a dozen years of freshwater experience and, I suppose I always had good luck. I never had to euthanize before, came close, but they'd usually recover. Took a few years off from the hobby, decided to try saltwater. Spent the last 7 months...

www.reef2reef.com

whats the operating timeline there


am listing that to show when I relay data it’s from pattern watching in the forums. I’ve seen six more recently too thats just one happening by right now. It’s a pattern, and it doesn’t matter if others disagree or not it’s my pattern noted and all my cycling tanks hear about this pattern. within eight months we *tend* to hear about losses most of the time, 8/10 quarantine skippers report some type of challenge and it may or may not be a total wipeout it’s just eighty percent headaches of some degree expected within eight months of setup. By taking time to cycle tanks and stay up with the outcomes I’m noticing this pattern, I call it like I see it.


it doesn’t have to be eight months to the date, but that’s not 24 months at work or three, 7-8 months give or take is the approximation I like to work with and pick out from the myriad disease posts available for scanning nowadays.

They joined r2r in August so 4 months so in or before your 8 month statement yes,but just read there first threads made on r2r and one thread is about having a qt tank in there sump to qt fish but seperate from the other part of their sump they say if aslong as there siliconing is good then they hope all be good ,another poster mentions dieseses/parasites aerosoling and travelling through the air and I will add also can get splashes so not a ideal way to qt but is a sort of qt better than no qt and they state " think maybe uronema " which to my understanding no medication can treat before/ during or after anyway but another poster replied in thread you shared above that damsels are known to be aggressive and wouldn't be surprised if the damsels attacked the chromis and causes the damaged scales and wasn't even uronema and op replied the following ......

We (I and the LFS) suspect Azure Damsels but he wasn't 100% sure. Same patterning, but the blues are darker than what I see online. I was wondering about the aggressiveness as well and indeed, one of the damsels is being protective of the most coveted (covered and protected) spot, but this is a 120 gallon tank and there should be plenty of room for all.

In a way, fingers crossed I was wrong and I didn't just infect the whole DT on day 1....
End of quote .

So not wanting cause argument but you not really picked a good thread to verify what you say about new tanks who don't qt end up with some kind of fish loss due to diesese/ parasites imo .
Firstly uronema can't treat for or prevent anyway.
Secondly they sort of did a qt it sounds like ( or was least asking about qt in seperate part of sump) but again goes back to even if used 101 different medications or used 0 then uronema could still got through.
And thirdly the uronema wasn't even confirmed even by the op,no pictures for the more experienced guys and gals to give their verdict .
So not a real good example to say : HEY EVERYONE I TOLD YOU IF DONT QT THEN PEOPLE WILL HAVE FISH LOSSES IN FIRST 8 MONTHS DUE TO NOT QT"

and again I'm new myself to saltwater at I think it's around 9 months since my FIRST saltwater tank set up and I'm not suggesting to anyone that you shouldn't qt or should qt,I still stand by same principle of each and everyone should do their research and decide what and how and what and how much to do .

For myself I started for 5 full years of intention to qt and medicate all fish and qt observational for all inverts for full 76- 90 days but then read over and over qt isnt 100 % effective and only limits the odds of a diesese/ parasite getting through and I would be truly gutted if had all these qt tanks set up and the time,effort and cost but yet a diesese/parasite still got through ,and brandon that " bio security thread " that jay started and I see you mentioning alot lately, if I read it properly few weeks ago ( good and helpful read btw) he states about qt everything including inverts but says it limits the chances of introducing diesese/ parasites but doesn't 100% eradicate them 100% of the time .I can't find thread to read it again and point out which part in it he states this or read it again then admit I misinterpret what he says as I'm humble enough to admit when I'm wrong but pretty sure I read it correctly and he said this .( I haven't used quotes so dont mean he said that word for word,but what I took from what he said)
If you can find thread on " bio security " then share it please for me but also be good to have in a thread like this to give new reefers or old reefers alike the information so can make an informed decision.
As alot may say if it got 90% chance or higher of eradicating diesese/ parasites then I will do what the expert in fish jay says so then that will be good for people imo.
And again brandon I don't want argue and hope you having great day ,I just like to have all the Information to decide stuff for myself and I'm not experienced enough to tell anyone what to do around there livestock so that's for them to research and decide imo

 

[ying yang]

The Other Way to Run a Reef Tank (no Quarantine)

The other way to run a reef tank (No Quarantine) I was asked by my friend Humblefish to start a thread on my practices of running a tank with no quarantine, hospital tanks, medications, dipping or almost anything else. It is "not" just to take a fish from a store and drop it in your reef...

www.reef2reef.com

Btw I see sometimes is asked of others who don't qt to start threads on how to start a tank without qt so here one.im sure there's more.^_^

And as always because I'm all about the information and not on a particular side here is " 2021 current diesese protocols " if want to do a full qt and jay also made a thread called " bio security " about qt inverts/ corals/cuc without fish and importance of not cross contamination and all stuff like this ,just I can't bloody find it lol.

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

( and I'm on the reefers side as I believe we all love this hobby,just that there many ways to get to end result and many different ways to do it so I say we all on same team ^_^ )

 

[ying yang]

Biosecurity

A short introduction to aquarium biosecurity

www.reef2reef.com

Found it lol.
Ok re-read the article and do see part saying its meant to " limit" what dieseses we aquarist introduce to an aquarium,so ummm doesn't say qt and good bio security is 100% effective so will let all read it and see what you all think.
But if you want to qt and cut down the risks to very low % and confident you can do the qt properley then all the Information is above for you if that's what you decide, anyway enough of me waffling on yet again lol