Is Marine Pure releasing Aluminum? And is it haven't any ill effect on your ...

[KoleTang]

Do you have a special need for biological filtration that live sand or rock cannot meet?

I want to leave my display with a good amount of negative space and room for my SPS to grow. I'll have about 40# of Pukani in a 105g. My sand beds usually are 1" or less and siphoned weekly, so there is not much anaerobic filtration happening there.

I was looking in to keeping rock in my sump for added filtration. After watching this (Which rock has the most surface area? - YouTube) I found that Marine Pure was more cost effective, but then I found out about the aluminum...

[Not sure if this if this helps, but other filtration on this tank is going to be a large skimmer (5x oversized to start, may add more depending on bioload), spinning chaeto refugium, GAC, and possibly LaCl3 and vodka depending on if they are needed.]

 

[reefwiser]

I have used this product in many reef tanks for years. With out any issues. We spend so much time worrying about something like this product which is used in aquariums around the world. With no problems for years now.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have used this product in many reef tanks for years. With out any issues. We spend so much time worrying about something like this product which is used in aquariums around the world. With no problems for years now.

No problem that you know of.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I want to leave my display with a good amount of negative space and room for my SPS to grow. I'll have about 40# of Pukani in a 105g. My sand beds usually are 1" or less and siphoned weekly, so there is not much anaerobic filtration happening there.

I was looking in to keeping rock in my sump for added filtration. After watching this (Which rock has the most surface area? - YouTube) I found that Marine Pure was more cost effective, but then I found out about the aluminum...

[Not sure if this if this helps, but other filtration on this tank is going to be a large skimmer (5x oversized to start, may add more depending on bioload), spinning chaeto refugium, GAC, and possibly LaCl3 and vodka depending on if they are needed.]

So you are wanting it to denitrify. That seems like a reasonable plan. I just do not know if it is the best way to achieve it. Sorry there is nothing definitive.

 

[reefwiser]

Yes, Randy I Have been keeping reef tanks since being a mod on Compusever with Larry Jackson bakc in the day. An I started using this product when the quality of porous live rock when downward in availablity. Learned from friends overseas about the roduct and have had no issues with it. Nor have anyone of my many friends I have over the years that use the product.
[video=youtube_share;ATVmuLcMxag]http://youtu.be/ATVmuLcMxag[/video]

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, Randy I Have been keeping reef tanks since being a mod on Compusever with Larry Jackson bakc in the day. An I started using this product when the quality of porous live rock when downward in availablity. Learned from friends overseas about the roduct and have had no issues with it. Nor have anyone of my many friends I have over the years that use the product.
[video=youtube_share;ATVmuLcMxag]http://youtu.be/ATVmuLcMxag[/video]

Thanks. I moded there for a bit too. What was your name on Compuserve?

 

[reefwiser]

My full name is Ed Wiser Of coarse you had a compuserve number too. I also used ewiser. [emoji1] I handle saltwater and did the talks with speakers such as my friend Martin Moe and Albert Theil plus everyone else's. It helped out when the club I started in 1983 started hosting MACNA's my club has hosted 4 so far. My old friend Steve Tyree will be here this coming November to show off SPS. to me the hobby has so many ways to do things that there is always something new to learn. I am always learning new procedures from friends in the hobby I have made at MACNA's or just meeting online. I do not let the past hold be back from learning a new way or new chemistry. I read 100 forums around the world everyday. I have doing it for years and it has brought many wonderful insights into the reef hobby for me.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi Ed. Your name is familiar, but that was a long time ago now.

 

[reefwiser]

Yes it is has been many years ago. Time flys when you are having fun.

 

[Electrobes]

Nothing much that I know of, but this person removed his block and aluminum by Triton went down:

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/re...on-test-trying-out-science-4.html#post2197481

Randy, you won't believe this but one of Triton's customers wrote my Triton ID number, and they sent me his/her results! I just got mine back today, but again it shows muuuuuch lower Aluminum, after removing the Marine Pure block. I will be posting it on that same thread of mine.

Oh well, his/her results weren't too far off my own, none of the parameters (Except Calcium being too high) has me too worried.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for the update!

 

[Ashish Patel]

I want to buy the marinepure but I can't get my mind around the price point. Unless it came wet covered in beneficial bacteria - doesnt make sense to buy 2 pieces at around $130. . o me it seem like your paying Live rock price without the weight but better surface area.. I have a refugium in my sump 18X8" that i've decided not to use and have alot of space for all my extra live rock. However, I rather not fill it with 20 lbs of rock.

I can imagine a simple sponge would have more surface area then the marinepure at a fairly decent price (but still ridiculous)...
Anyone use something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QFSM5D6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3IEO85BEVOS5E

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not sure what you are asking about will denitrify.

 

[Ashish Patel]

Randy,

Given the cost and unknown risk of using marine pure, wouldn't it be just as efficient to use bio sponge block?

 

[Ashish Patel]

I'm not sure what you are asking about will denitrify.

Randy - Are you saying that you think the sponge will just nitrify? Notice my sump - the back middle portion of my sump is a passive refugium- Wont this alone help with denitification regardless of media?
My system (130Gallon total) will have only 35LB of dryrock and 40LB of sand in the display tank so want to make sure I have good biological filter in the sump. I don't overcrowd with fish and filtration will be Skimmer and Bio pellet reactor.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm just saying that I don't know the internal characteristics of that material, but most sponges nitrify and do not denitrify. The internal regions need to become depleted in O2 for denitrification to take place. Certainly, some solid surface media (such as bioballs) do not denitrify.

 

[Ashish Patel]

Man your always right! It says on the package "Replace the bio-sponge three month, to ensure the filtrating effect as well as the growth of the nitrifying bacteria." I'll find other uses for it like separating my sump areas

 

[Scott Campbell]

I realize this is now an old topic - but thought I would toss in an observation. I have been using the Marine Pure balls with nice success for a while now and just recently stumbled upon several of these threads discussing the possibility the ceramic shapes may be releasing toxic aluminum ions. I have been involved in ceramic material sales and product formulation for roughly 40 years. When first reading the threads I considered it ridiculous that a kiln-fired alumina silicate compound would throw off aluminum ions in a reef aquarium environment. Such a product just seemed way too inert and non-reactive. But I spoke with my brother who knows more than I do about such matters and he mentioned a parallel issue with orchids and ceramic flower pots. My brother has spent considerable time formulating ceramic containers for orchids which are free of alumina since orchids are subject to toxic aluminum exposure when the pH in a standard ceramic flower pot drops below roughly 5 or 6. But he has also noticed that orchids suffer from aluminum toxicity at anything above a pH of 8.3. Between 6 and 8.3 the kiln-fired alumina silicate compound (i.e. flower pot bought at Lowes) seems completely non-reactive. What makes this noteworthy is how few variables are involved with flower pots and orchids. The orchid grows in bark in a ceramic container. And the formula of the ceramic container can be modified. Orchids grown in ceramic containers without alumina show no toxic distress at basically any pH. Ceramic containers containing alumina cause orchids very obvious distress at both low and high pH values. The hitch is that it is extremely expensive to make a flower pot without alumina. There just aren't many available materials you can use. What also seems interesting is that the threshold for orchids experiencing distress is a pH of 8.3. As mentioned, I use Marine Pure spheres and have several leather corals which have always done well. But my pH *never* gets above 8.3. And I suspect many people with reef tanks have pH levels consistently below 8.3. Which would allow for the mixed results regarding Marine Pure products. It is perhaps not enough to simply place a Marine Pure block in your tank. Your tank pH must also exceed 8.3 before Aluminum ions begin to be released. Below 8.3 the product is likely harmless - much like the Lowes flower pot.

It seems you could test this by setting up two buckets filled with water using a salt mix that contains no aluminum. Set the pH in one bucket at 8.0 and set the pH in the other bucket at 8.4. Place two identical pieces of Marine Pure block in each bucket and wait for a period of time. Then send two tests to Triton. If the 8.4 sample shows a noticeably higher level of aluminum then I think you can assume the Marine Pure blocks are shedding aluminum ions at higher pH values.

Again - just something I thought was interesting as someone who loves both pottery and saltwater aquariums.

 

[Ashish Patel]

Last week I saw something online that says that some chinese companies are making fake marine pure products - which are the ones releasing aluminum.. There is really no way to know the difference as they are sold with the same packaging. Since I bought mine for around $40 I will have to investigate as I' owe this much to my livestock. I got 8X4" one from Big al's for under $40. I really hope Big al's didnt purchase them from the boot leg wholesaler.

 

[jason2459]

I realize this is now an old topic - but thought I would toss in an observation. I have been using the Marine Pure balls with nice success for a while now and just recently stumbled upon several of these threads discussing the possibility the ceramic shapes may be releasing toxic aluminum ions. I have been involved in ceramic material sales and product formulation for roughly 40 years. When first reading the threads I considered it ridiculous that a kiln-fired alumina silicate compound would throw off aluminum ions in a reef aquarium environment. Such a product just seemed way too inert and non-reactive. But I spoke with my brother who knows more than I do about such matters and he mentioned a parallel issue with orchids and ceramic flower pots. My brother has spent considerable time formulating ceramic containers for orchids which are free of alumina since orchids are subject to toxic aluminum exposure when the pH in a standard ceramic flower pot drops below roughly 5 or 6. But he has also noticed that orchids suffer from aluminum toxicity at anything above a pH of 8.3. Between 6 and 8.3 the kiln-fired alumina silicate compound (i.e. flower pot bought at Lowes) seems completely non-reactive. What makes this noteworthy is how few variables are involved with flower pots and orchids. The orchid grows in bark in a ceramic container. And the formula of the ceramic container can be modified. Orchids grown in ceramic containers without alumina show no toxic distress at basically any pH. Ceramic containers containing alumina cause orchids very obvious distress at both low and high pH values. The hitch is that it is extremely expensive to make a flower pot without alumina. There just aren't many available materials you can use. What also seems interesting is that the threshold for orchids experiencing distress is a pH of 8.3. As mentioned, I use Marine Pure spheres and have several leather corals which have always done well. But my pH *never* gets above 8.3. And I suspect many people with reef tanks have pH levels consistently below 8.3. Which would allow for the mixed results regarding Marine Pure products. It is perhaps not enough to simply place a Marine Pure block in your tank. Your tank pH must also exceed 8.3 before Aluminum ions begin to be released. Below 8.3 the product is likely harmless - much like the Lowes flower pot.

It seems you could test this by setting up two buckets filled with water using a salt mix that contains no aluminum. Set the pH in one bucket at 8.0 and set the pH in the other bucket at 8.4. Place two identical pieces of Marine Pure block in each bucket and wait for a period of time. Then send two tests to Triton. If the 8.4 sample shows a noticeably higher level of aluminum then I think you can assume the Marine Pure blocks are shedding aluminum ions at higher pH values.

Again - just something I thought was interesting as someone who loves both pottery and saltwater aquariums.

I'm testing out a ceramic block now. pH is 7.7-7.8
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-much-aluminum-will-it-leach-lets-guess.247034/page-19


In that same thread I have shown significant increases in Al from the Marine pure blocks and my pH is a struggle to maintain over 8.0. It has never been over 8.3. There's no doubt to me that the Marine Pure blocks will leach Al. However, I have no idea what form it is in or if it's harmful long term. Initially when adding a block my Leather gets very very unhappy. Short term my Leather is irritated and for some reason my sponges take a hit. I have kept them all in my sump and wouldn't say I have hit any longer term results yet but my Leather seems to have recovered but my sponges are still very much receded but just recently showing signs of growing back.