Is my clownfish hurt?

[MyFirstCar]

Hey all, first time reefer, 20g nano with 2 clownfish. The male clownfish seems to have some damage behind the left gills. He also had some damage to the top fin 2 weeks ago, which is healing nicely. Is this just coloration, or is their bullying going on? I am pretty sure my clownfish are paired, they've been doing everything together for months, and the male does that spasming "dance" all the time.

I have an emerald crab that tries to fight them for annenome space sometimes, could he be the culprit?

(Will update with a YouTube link for the mobile users in a bit)

 

[vetteguy53081]

Overall fish looks good but I do see fraying behind the gill and also see labored breathing. Emerald crabs rarely hunt down tankmates unless they are dying and focus more on picking on soft coral and algaes
The other clown is likely culprit and often the larger being female can be aggressive and cause damage especially if fighting over space with anemone or an area of tank.
While healing is shown, the breathing is of concern and may be associated with previous damage.
What is ammonia and nitrate level ?

 

[MyFirstCar]

I don't test for ammonia, but nitrates were 3.8 ppm last test, was a couple days ago, they might have crept up to 5 or so

 

[MyFirstCar]

I don't test for ammonia, but nitrates were 3.8 ppm last test, was a couple days ago, they might have crept up to 5 or so

Anything is possible, but I think the chance of ammonia is low. It's been up and running for 6 months with no real change in bioload for the last 2.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I agree - the clown is breathing a bit fast, with exaggerated gill plate motion. That is a symptom of a variety of possible issues. I can see the tank has good circulation, but is there good aeration as well? Bubbles breaking the surface - from a pump return or a protein skimmer.

Jay

 

[MyFirstCar]

I agree - the clown is breathing a bit fast, with exaggerated gill plate motion. That is a symptom of a variety of possible issues. I can see the tank has good circulation, but is there good aeration as well? Bubbles breaking the surface - from a pump return or a protein skimmer.

Jay

There is a skimmer, so I think aeration is good.

The damage appears to be a little worse now? Perhaps another nip at the front of the top fin, and the gills.

If it is the female, what are my options?

 

[MyFirstCar]

I don't test for ammonia, but nitrates were 3.8 ppm last test, was a couple days ago, they might have crept up to 5 or so

Just tested nitrate, it's somewhere between 5 and 10 ppm. I have salifert so it's a little hard to tell between them.

 

[MyFirstCar]

Update: definitely the female, just caught her nipping his underside as I watched them.

Should I seperate? Is this common behavior for paired clowns?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update: definitely the female, just caught her nipping his underside as I watched them.

Should I seperate? Is this common behavior for paired clowns?

Sounds like their pair bond has broken down - that is pretty common with clownfish unless they are paired to the point of actively laying eggs. Not a lot of options. The best would be to separate the two fish permanently. Sometimes, you might be able to put the aggressive clown in a acclimation chamber at the side of the tank for a "time out" and let the more passive fish heal and and sort of build up its own territory in the tank....but that doesn't always work.

Jay

 

[MyFirstCar]

Overall fish looks good but I do see fraying behind the gill and also see labored breathing. Emerald crabs rarely hunt down tankmates unless they are dying and focus more on picking on soft coral and algaes
The other clown is likely culprit and often the larger being female can be aggressive and cause damage especially if fighting over space with anemone or an area of tank.
While healing is shown, the breathing is of concern and may be associated with previous damage.
What is ammonia and nitrate level ?

Ammonia might be a problem in the end, I only have API test kits for ammonia which I know can be inaccurate, but I just tested and it's around 0.5ppm. Also very weird, I just pulled my socks to clean them and all the pods in there were dead. Might be related.

 

[MyFirstCar]

Managed to capture some of the behaviour if that helps.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Managed to capture some of the behaviour if that helps.

That's fighting - the darker one is taking the brunt of the issue.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ammonia an

Ammonia might be a problem in the end, I only have API test kits for ammonia which I know can be inaccurate, but I just tested and it's around 0.5ppm. Also very weird, I just pulled my socks to clean them and all the pods in there were dead. Might be related.

Ammonia and nitrates are likely quite high in which im sick of arguments how good API test kits are. Theyre not
Please Take a good size water sample to a trusted LFS that does not use Api kits and see what readings they come up with and to compare with yours.

 

[kevgib67]

I’ve never done this but have heard many times of it being successful. Place a mirror against the glass. The aggressor will focus it’s attention on the new clown that is invading its territory and allow the other to heal up. Long term fix? Idk

 

[vetteguy53081]

I’ve never done this but have heard many times of it being successful. Place a mirror against the glass. The aggressor will focus it’s attention on the new clown that is invading its territory and allow the other to heal up. Long term fix? Idk

Works good with tangs and hit and miss with others

 

[MyFirstCar]

Ammonia an

Ammonia and nitrates are likely quite high in which im sick of arguments how good API test kits are. Theyre not
Please Take a good size water sample to a trusted LFS that does not use Api kits and see what readings they come up with and to compare with yours.

Nitrates were tested with Salifert. Just brought my water to the LFS, and they said it was good on ammonia

 

[MyFirstCar]

Got an isolation box, trying to get the attacker into it now. Thanks everyone for all your help, will send an update tomorrow to see if the brown one is getting better

 

[HumuhumuFan]

I had this happen to me with 2 clowns that had been happy together for several years. I think the smaller male eventually got big enough the the female saw her as a threat and in the wild would've chased her off to a new territory. Not wanting to setup another tank and not wanting to get rid of either of them, I put an acrylic tank divider in and the problem is solved. They jaw at each other through the divider frequently, I'd imagine it gives them something to do.

The same clown several years ago would sometimes bite the smaller one I added for her as a hopeful pair and one day the smaller one just vanished. I found it mummified under the floor heater on the carpet 1.5 years later! It was remarkably well preserved, in fact, I thought it was a toy clownfish at first and couldn't figure out where it could've come from.

 

[MyFirstCar]

Reintroduced today! Things are looking ok for now.

 

[MyFirstCar]

Final update a month later. It seems isolation has worked, the two clowns are friends again. No new damage on either one. Thanks everyone for their advice

Some mitigating factors that might have helped in my case (for posterity and future people who might find this thread):
My clownfish were young (~8-10 months old, in the tank for 6 ish),
No other fish were in the tank,
Water parameters didn't really shift during the whole thing,
There are multiple places that my clownfish like to hang out/hide (caves, anemones, etc. I think this was critical to the reintroduction)
My male clownfish has always been submissive, right from the start, even when attacked.
I started the isolation relatively early (I hope/think), while both clownfish were still eating well, swimming well, etc.