Is qt always needed?

Hdgutierrez

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I am receiving some fish from a friend who's breaking down his tank. The fish I'm getting are a leapord wrasse, yellow choris wrasse, Timor wrasse and algae blenny. He insists that the fish are okay and I should put them in my qt. Although the fish have been in his tank for multiple years I'm still hesitant. I would appreciate hearing other people's opinions. Thanks!
 
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Urban

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He’s never had ich or any other disease affect any of the fish that he’s put in his tank, and the fish are three years old. The last addition was a fox face added last October and it was quarantined* for a month.

South Park Crowd GIF by HBO Max

* All aforementioned fish have remained unvaccinated and Covid free throughout the entirety of this pandemic.
 
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fishmonkey

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I am receiving some fish from a friend who's breaking down his tank. The fish I'm getting are a leapord wrasse, yellow choris wrasse, Timor wrasse and algae blenny. He insists that the fish are okay and I should put them in my qt. Although the fish have been in his tank for multiple years I'm still hesitant. I would appreciate hearing other people's opinions. Thanks!
 

Urban

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I’m truly curious at this point. Obviously I was making a joke in my earlier post, but I’m the friend who currently owns the fish.
The OP and I have been long term friends and both know the other’s systems fairly well.

The fish were originally quarantined, and most were purchased through Diver’s Den, which claims to also quarantine. Looking back through older emails, I found that each of these has been in my system for two and a half to three years. There has never been any disease that affected the fish within this system (SPS Dominated), and they were also quarantined by me.

The last addition to my tank was a very small fox face in October of 2020. After quarantining him in a separate system, there was no sign of disease, and he was added to the tank (and has also been re-homed). Knowing this, and the life cycle of the primary diseases, what is the rationale? I whole heartedly understand the need for quarantining in unknown situations, but in this particular case, what is it that would cause you to put the fish through the stress of quarantining them? These guys are currently in my nano reef (I had to part with my larger system for an upcoming move), and will be for another week, before ultimately going to my friend, the OP. They’re being temporarily housed in my nano (1 move). What is the logic behind moving them from this system (2 moves), to a quarantine system (3 moves), and then to another system afterwards (4 moves)? Three of the wrasses burrow, and unless I am very wrong, I’ve always been under the impression that when quarantining, sand beds are typically not preferred, especially when medicating (consider the life cycle of amyloodinium). Knowing the history, how could the stress on the fish be justified in this case?

With both coral and fish - and I have told the OP this - I’ve always said quarantine it even if it’s handed to you by God himself. I have now found myself wondering if in this situation (or others that are similar) there’s an exception… My primary concern is the well being of the fish, and I know the OP is the same way (trust me). I feel like the day may eventually come when the only place we can see a piece of the reef is in a glass box (if at all), and with that feeling comes a fear of losing the livestock we already have.

Dustin
 
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Urban

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I don't understand the need to qt here. They're already in qt. The system they're in has had no new additions in years? What more can one ask?
Blame me for part of the stress and dilemma. Lol I started reefing in my early teens, and will be forty in a few; I’ve told the OP every horror story I’ve encountered.

Dustin
 

Dburr1014

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Yes, this is a toss up. If nothing added in a long time to the existing tank, why bother.
But, if there was something added, why not?
I would also like to point out that the leopard wrasse is sensitive to copper if you go that route. Not sure if the others are too.
 

threebuoys

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I’m truly curious at this point. Obviously I was making a joke in my earlier post, but I’m the friend who currently owns the fish.
The OP and I have been long term friends and both know the other’s systems fairly well.

The fish were originally quarantined, and most were purchased through Diver’s Den, which claims to also quarantine. Looking back through older emails, I found that each of these has been in my system for two and a half to three years. There has never been any disease that affected the fish within this system (SPS Dominated), and they were also quarantined by me.

The last addition to my tank was a very small fox face in October of 2020. After quarantining him in a separate system, there was no sign of disease, and he was added to the tank (and has also been re-homed). Knowing this, and the life cycle of the primary diseases, what is the rationale? I whole heartedly understand the need for quarantining in unknown situations, but in this particular case, what is it that would cause you to put the fish through the stress of quarantining them? These guys are currently in my nano reef (I had to part with my larger system for an upcoming move), and will be for another week, before ultimately going to my friend, the OP. They’re being temporarily housed in my nano (1 move). What is the logic behind moving them from this system (2 moves), to a quarantine system (3 moves), and then to another system afterwards (4 moves)? Three of the wrasses burrow, and unless I am very wrong, I’ve always been under the impression that when quarantining, sand beds are typically not preferred, especially when medicating (consider the life cycle of amyloodinium). Knowing the history, how could the stress on the fish be justified in this case?

With both coral and fish - and I have told the OP this - I’ve always said quarantine it even if it’s handed to you by God himself. I have now found myself wondering if in this situation (or others that are similar) there’s an exception… My primary concern is the well being of the fish, and I know the OP is the same way (trust me). I feel like the day may eventually come when the only place we can see a piece of the reef is in a glass box (if at all), and with that feeling comes a fear of losing the livestock we already have.

Dustin
While I am a firm believer in quarantine, it sounds as if the current owner has been diligent in his care. @Urban did not indicate if his quarantine process used copper and prazi as currently recommended, but clearly, he has taken steps to avoid crypto and other parasites. Since the foxface was introduced in 2020, these fish have well over a year of no apparent infection. If I had a friend I knew well and trusted his skills, I would gladly accept fish from him and add to my DT without additional quarantine.
 

Duncan62

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I am receiving some fish from a friend who's breaking down his tank. The fish I'm getting are a leapord wrasse, yellow choris wrasse, Timor wrasse and algae blenny. He insists that the fish are okay and I should put them in my qt. Although the fish have been in his tank for multiple years I'm still hesitant. I would appreciate hearing other people's opinions. Thanks!
 
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LiamPM

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The only real reason to quarantine here is if you plan to do a prophylactic treatment regardless if you see any issues or not.

If you do, then go ahead and QT - Its your treatment for peace of mind.

If you dont believe in prophylactic treatment and was only going to observe them then its fairly pointless. If you trust who you are getting them from to be honest and they have said no new additions in years or issues then their current tank you are getting it from is literally an observation tank itself.

You run a risk either way - Personally, trust aside, if it was me in my fairly largely stocked tank id be adding them to my own observation tank for a couple of weeks - If nothing rears its head then in they go, no treatment necessary.
 

GARRIGA

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Just because fish have been healthy doesn’t preclude them from carrying pathogens that might show themselves in a time of stress. Why it’s best to QT new arrivals to ensure the stress of transition hasn’t gotten the best of them. This way once another stress happens such as moving from QT to DT there should be less doubt something else hitched a ride with them.
 

Lasse

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I would not QT and definitely not a prophylactic treatment in this case but put them in my refugium for a week or two. The real thing is two ways - the incoming fish can be carrier of pathogen they are immune to (but not your fish) and/or your fish can carry pathogen they are immune against but not the incoming- IME the second scenario use to be the most normal. If you put the new fish directly into you DT - you will have a huge risk that some of your old fish will bully the newcomer and that will be stress that make them sick - the immune system goes down. I have noted that if I have newcomers in my refugium for a week or so - there is few problems with bulling and stress when they are introduced into the new DT. If I have no refugium - I would use a tank with rocks and sand (a normal tank) let the go for observation and learn to eat the food I give them. On a daily basis - I would switch some water between the QT and DT. small amount in the beginning - larger in the end. This have two very good advantages -

1) the incoming fish get the same smell as the old ones - this has been shown - IME - to reduce the risk that the old fishers consider the newcomers as strangers.

2) both the new and the old fish get small injections of any pathogens and have time to build up their immune system under stress-free conditions

Sincerely Lasse
 

Duncan62

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I would not QT and definitely not a prophylactic treatment in this case but put them in my refugium for a week or two. The real thing is two ways - the incoming fish can be carrier of pathogen they are immune to (but not your fish) and/or your fish can carry pathogen they are immune against but not the incoming- IME the second scenario use to be the most normal. If you put the new fish directly into you DT - you will have a huge risk that some of your old fish will bully the newcomer and that will be stress that make them sick - the immune system goes down. I have noted that if I have newcomers in my refugium for a week or so - there is few problems with bulling and stress when they are introduced into the new DT. If I have no refugium - I would use a tank with rocks and sand (a normal tank) let the go for observation and learn to eat the food I give them. On a daily basis - I would switch some water between the QT and DT. small amount in the beginning - larger in the end. This have two very good advantages -

1) the incoming fish get the same smell as the old ones - this has been shown - IME - to reduce the risk that the old fishers consider the newcomers as strangers.

2) both the new and the old fish get small injections of any pathogens and have time to build up their immune system under stress-free conditions

Sincerely Lasse
I've been doing this hobby for a long time and always thought of the sump where mean crabs and fish go for punishment. Lol. Great idea for acclimation. Never to old to learn a new trick.
 

Tamberav

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It’s a personal decision. Yes the fish can still have disease but chances are certainly lower than buying them at the LFS. The stress of moving them may make it surface.

No one here is going to be the person to recover from disease or buy you new fish. Whatever advice you get… it’s still you that has to deal with it.

So you need to decide what you personally are willing to risk and do.
 
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