Is RTN/STN worse than it used to be??

[jda]

I have been around for a while and people have always kept certain corals too soon or otherwise got in over their heads. I know the tendency is for horrible recency bias (like kids thinking that 2020 was worst ever instead of world wars killing hundreds of thousands or millions of them), but not much has changed here IMO.

Everybody has experienced RTN. If you have not, then just wait. If you have a young tank or are fresh in acropora, then you probably need to learn more and stuff, but sometimes it just happens to even the most seasoned and you just have to not take it personally or chase any parameters or anything.

Edit: for anybody looking for a dip or other snake oil, you are going to be disappointed. The corals either need to be healthy enough to survive and fight that stuff off (if that is even really the problem) or they are not going to make it anyway. I feel like most that stuff is total bunk and preys on the unknowing - if philaster is an issue and is in every tank, then people who have healthy corals must have some alien mutations. IMO, these folks are just selling a promise and want your money. I would spend your money on getting a more stable reef tank.

 

[ptrahan]

Forgive ignorance but what is KIsS?

Keep it simple stupid

 

[Dburr1014]

I have experienced it and it sucks. I have not had it in a few years other than the birds nest that for some reason I can't keep anyway.

 

[BradB]

+1
I had it few times and it appears to be lighting problem (Very low PAR)

I've never once seen it from too low PAR. Too high will kill a coral, but usually not RTN. Too low will just slowly brown out then fade away.

 

[dzolot]

And for those of you looking for more information on the subject and how to stop it there is a whole website that explain what it is how we get it and how to stomp it in its track thanks to demarks marine biologists

Causes and Treatment of Coral RTN (Rapid Tissue Necrosis) and STN

Coral tissue necrosis (RTN and STN) and coral bleaching are caused by an infection due to microscopic parasites. Treatment and prevention is availible.

coralrtn.com

Prime Coral STOP RTN

Prime Coral Stop RTN is a complete coral dip used to treat common coral parasites. It is the only treatment effective against RTN, STN, and Coral Bleaching parasites; acropora eating flatworms, mon…

primecoral.com

Thanks for this. I would buy this to help with STN I’m experiencing now, but site says they are out of stock on both products!

 

[Rocketfish]

I experienced it on one frag and it was when my AC went out. I bought a chiller and installed it, super-glued over the dead part, got the temp back down nicely and it stopped wasting away. It has been a couple of months now and is doing well with a bit of growth.

This made me think back to an article someone wrote about keeping seahorses. In that article, they mentioned that if you keep the temp at 74F versus 76F, you were significantly less likely to have a bacterial problem. I am paraphrasing and I can't find the article, but it makes me wonder if that God's true with reef tanks as well.

It doesn't mean you can't keep critters at higher temperatures, only that the tank is more susceptible to bacterial problems there.

 

[ScottR]

I believe it’s more common because people tend to use dry rock starts more now than before. Good live rock = less RTN/STN. It’s all about bacteria. One thing Lou Ekis talked about before is that corals need phosphorus. But they have a poor way of grabbing it. Through carbon dosing, bacterial number are greater and bacteria will consume phosphorus and then SPS polyps will eat bacteria and get the phosphorous they need. Dry rock has no good bacteria. And not talking about nitrifying bacteria we get in bottles. Hope this helps!

 

[Shooter6]

Keep it simple stupid

This!

 

[Shooter6]

Thanks for this. I would buy this to help with STN I’m experiencing now, but site says they are out of stock on both products!

Save your money

 

[Shooter6]

And for those of you looking for more information on the subject and how to stop it there is a whole website that explain what it is how we get it and how to stomp it in its track thanks to demarks marine biologists

Causes and Treatment of Coral RTN (Rapid Tissue Necrosis) and STN

Coral tissue necrosis (RTN and STN) and coral bleaching are caused by an infection due to microscopic parasites. Treatment and prevention is availible.

coralrtn.com

Prime Coral STOP RTN

Prime Coral Stop RTN is a complete coral dip used to treat common coral parasites. It is the only treatment effective against RTN, STN, and Coral Bleaching parasites; acropora eating flatworms, mon…

primecoral.com

I thought Dr are and his b.s. miracle cures where gone and forgotten.
He was scamming people for coral last year. Ordering highend frag packs, then after they arrived he would get pp to reimburse him claim
Ming all the coral died in shipping, never showing the dead frags. There's a reason he's banned from many if not all the fb groups.

 

[Delloman]

It happened to me on my last shipment I feel that the shipment may have gotten to hot along the way lost an Oregon tort and about half of my the order. I wanted to cry.

 

[ceaver]

Bleaching can occur too which is different than rtn stn many beginners bleach their sticks and say its stn rtn... nope it got bleached... which is where temp is 2 degrees too high or too low(rapid change fast) a shift in salinity, cal and mag are off dkh was too high and the coral was just pt in not drip acclimated(if your alk is high and the wholesalers was 8.2)

Also known as ocean acidification in nature,

It's easy to acidify a coral unknowingly and think its rtn stn ask me how I know

If too many rapid changes happen fast it will die a slow painful death or affect coral health in the longrun

So is bleached acropora dead acropora, in the same way that rtn/stn acropora is dead? How can you tell the difference if you missed the part when the tissue was peeling off (e.g., rtn overnight while sleeping)?
Thanks!

 

[UnderseaOddities]

I

I thought Dr are and his b.s. miracle cures where gone and forgotten.
He was scamming people for coral last year. Ordering highend frag packs, then after they arrived he would get pp to reimburse him claim
Ming all the coral died in shipping, never showing the dead frags. There's a reason he's banned from many if not all the fb groups.

Crazy @Shooter6 I did not know that

 

[Fourstars]

Either one is usually a goner, sometimes you can frag at living tissue and save a piece.

 

[Shooter6]

I

Crazy @Shooter6 I did not know that

Yeah he was taking people for 5k+ in sps. I wonder how many people sent him frags for testing, which of course he said we're always infected, that he really just put into his reef and are now mini colonies

 

[UnderseaOddities]

So is bleached acropora dead acropora, in the same way that rtn/stn acropora is dead? How can you tell the difference if you missed the part when the tissue was peeling off (e.g., rtn overnight while sleeping)?
Thanks!

@ceaver Bleaching is different because it's almost like nutrient lockout for plants, bleaching occurs due to improper care and is when the mucus layer doesnt peel the polyps dont eject and it slowly starves it self due to rapid influx in ph while acclimating, dip in alk or raise in alk,not enough cal or mag in water, to much phosphate or nitrate or not enough trace minerals, or not changing out water filter leaving metals behind or chloramines and fluoride not testing base water due to being busy or whatever, or a change in temperature
To much or too little light,too much or too little flow

Simply put bleaching is when a coral slowly dies due to human error, or inconsistencies slowly paling out then eventually dying

Rtn or stn drop coral overnight or over the course of a week due to protozoan cilliates attaching themself to corals mucus membranes and feeding off the tissue directly extruding the xoozanthelle, the mucus layer sheds and leaves behind a peeling shell of its former glory

Not to hijack the thread

 

[Fourstars]

Call it what you want bleaching/perimeters or protozoa it’s still the same thing, polyps bailing out. I don’t think most healthy tanks are going to have an issue with protozoa.

 

[blstravler]

Everybody has experienced RTN. If you have not, then just wait. If you have a young tank or are fresh in acropora, then you probably need to learn more and stuff, but sometimes it just happens to even the most seasoned and you just have to not take it personally or chase any parameters or anything.

100% agree. It just happens sometimes - I often think people have one RTN and they make a bunch of rash changes and that only compounds the issue. I take a couple frags if I can and immediately remove the rest of the coral. That’s it.

 

[FishTruck]

If I want to cause RTN / STN, here is what I do.

1. raise my ALK suddenly
2. let my DI resin get old
3. use a massive dose of carbon or GFO
4. play with the led settings
5. buy a large colony
6. have stuff shipped in extreme weather
7. try to replace RTN losses by buying a whole bunch of new frags before I have figured out what the problem is

 

[725196]

1) Have you experienced RTN/STN?

Yes it has happened to one of my corals here or there over the years.

2) Do you believe it to be more common or less common than it used to be?

No more no less in general. Although I am not sure we as a community have figured out all the reasons for it, I do think the more experience you have the more able you are to handle and solve the problm.

3) Why do you think that is?

Like everything else in this hobby, anecdotal evidence is a pillar of learning. To the person who has hade to face RTN more than once it probable seems worse. To the person who has never had to deal with it is probable seems like anon-issue, or a problem with the person who has RTN. Whatever we personally experience we focus on. When you buy a new car that you have not seen many of, all of a sudden you see that car all over the place. It is called the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon. If it more/less...yes...for those who experience it that way, and YES both are truth to the experienced party.