Is the recommended water change percentage outdated now that we have better filtration?

[damsels are not mean]

You should do them as big and as often as you need to accomplish what you are trying to accomplish. Or you should be like me and do a 5g change because you have 5g buckets. The numbers given out as recommendations are just arbitrary "safe" numbers. You should really be able to do as big or small a water change you want, assuming you keep parameters close to a fresh batch of saltwater.

 

[MoshJosh]

water change good. . . so me change water


30% cause thats how big my bucket is
(but my tanks are tiny. . . so it's not too expensive)

 

[kerbfish]

What are you using for filtration? I know that once I switched to a roller mat, my nitrate dropped to zero. My skimmer has pretty much become a jumbo airstone. Prior to the Rollermat, my skimmer brewed perfect coffee, after the Rollermat I get hardly any skimmate. Part of my questioning the whole water change thing vs modern filtration.

LOL! Jumbo air stone. Yeah i dont have a roller mat. I thought about getting one but i would beed to chop up my red sea sump and don’t really want to go that route. I have a skimmer, 4 filter sock tray, refugium that is not growing chaeto and some bio bricks. I also dont feed very heavy one ow two cubes a day.

 

[kerbfish]

That leads to the "all tanks are different" statement.

I had high nitrates and phosphates on my 29 gallon due to no water changes, heavy food in, no refuge, ok running skimmer.

When I cleaned my tank to it's current state, the chaeto doesn't grow as fast, better skimmer is running dry, WC more frequent and I try to put a cube of frozen in my tank daily for three fish.

Barely detectable nitrates and phosphates now and been that way for awhile, heavy softy and LPS load. I do water changes to siphon out loose mushrooms or suck out snips of nepthia.

I've cut back to 4 gallon WC's every couple of weeks...but may skip a week. I may even cut back to 2 or 3 gallons soon.

What do you think caused you to start dropping nitrates and phosphates to barley detectable? I have no reason to chase numbers except to avoid nuisance algae.

 

[rtparty]

Yes, water changes are outdated.

No, I didn't read the thread because it will be the same back and forth as all the water change threads. They aren't necessary to success and no math can prove they are.

 

[gbroadbridge]

I keep wanting to try going longer without a water change, but every time it gets to three weeks my hands start to shake and I can't sleep - so I cave.

 

[rtparty]

I keep wanting to try going longer without a water change, but every time it gets to three weeks my hands start to shake and I can't sleep - so I cave.

Been there.

We have a group that meets every third Tuesday after a full moon on the previous Thursday to talk about it. Two meetings with us and you'll be cured of the shakes!

 

[editour2]

My 215 gal DT, (over 330 gals total system volume), has been running for approx 11 years. It is SPS dominated but I do have mixed corals in the tank, (euphyllia, gorgonians, chalices etc). I use an algae turf scrubber and refugium with chaeto. I also carbon dose with vinegar and run a protein skimmer. In my tank I definitely notice a negative effect if I slackoff in water changes. It takes a while to happen but then I notice a down hill trend just by obserbing my coral. To me its just not worth it, given all the time and effortbinvested in my tank....but thats just me and my specific tank. Everybody's water chemistry is different.....and what works for 1 tank may or may not work for another.

 

[gbroadbridge]

My 215 gal DT, (over 330 gals total system volume), has been running for approx 11 years. It is SPS dominated but I do have mixed corals in the tank, (euphyllia, gorgonians, chalices etc). I use an algae turf scrubber and refugium with chaeto. I also carbon dose with vinegar and run a protein skimmer. In my tank I definitely notice a negative effect if I slackoff in water changes. It takes a while to happen but then I notice a down hill trend just by obserbing my coral. To me its just not worth it, given all the time and effortbinvested in my tank....but thats just me and my specific tank. Everybody's water chemistry is different.....and what works for 1 tank may or may not work for another.

Sure, but are you supplementing trace elements and doing balanced dosing?

 

[afi8907]

It is a quick fix and sometimes needed in case of an emergency but I've been running without any waterchanges for years now, not even while starting the tank up. Tank is still doing great.

Same and all my parameters are great. Salt level stays perfect. Everybody is happy and fed so I see no reason to do water changes.

 

[fish farmer]

What do you think caused you to start dropping nitrates and phosphates to barley detectable? I have no reason to chase numbers except to avoid nuisance algae.

I started with 30 to 40 ppm Nitrates and 1 to 2 ppm Phosphates (dark blue on a Salifert kit). I had lots of GHA and red algae growing in the DT. I would siphon and pull what I could every could of weeks with a 5 gallon WC, get it cut back for about a month and it would come back and if I missed a WC it would be messy.

I cut back back feeding to every other day, got back into a routine of every other week, 5 gallon WC (15%), pulled algae manually, added more CUC which was lacking at the time and added a small fist sized ball of chaeto in my sump under a small grow light. The chaeto I think doubled it's size in a month or so. After several months, nitrate and phos where dropping and chaeto slowed it's growth, I rarely harvest much now, it just maintains. At the time my skimmer was old and not as efficient, so a replaced it with a better skimmer.

I still have some algae in the DT....may be bryopsis and some red algae that only Mexican turbos eat, been getting more valonia recently. My tank and rock are old, 12+ years so I believe my phosphate problem was due to being bound up in the substrate.

Old pic. 2018. I was starting to get back into maintenance.

April 2022, recent turbo additions have cut back the red algae, but it will probably never go away, rooted deep.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is a quick fix and sometimes needed in case of an emergency but I've been running without any waterchanges for years now, not even while starting the tank up. Tank is still doing great.

So you actually do not know if it would be doing better with water changes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, water changes are outdated.

No, I didn't read the thread because it will be the same back and forth as all the water change threads. They aren't necessary to success and no math can prove they are.

True, without a head to head comparison. no one can prove what is best, but I certainly agree they are obviously not needed to have a tank that many folks think is very good.

 

[Timfish]

There's a lot going on in reef systems we can't test for. When looking at the problems labile DOC can cause, especially the Dissolved Combined Neutral Surgars (DCNS) which isn't removed by GAC or skimmers I don't see how the health of a system can be maintained for the expected life span of the corals and inverts without water changes. And for FWIW, coloration and growth can't be used as indicators of healthy corals.

 

[editour2]

Sure, but are you supplementing trace elements and doing balanced dosing?

I dose ESV trace elements along with Magnesium, Potasium & Vinegar using Pacific Sun Kore 5th doser. I also have a dual chamber calcium reactor and add Kalwasser to my LiterMeter auto top off to maintain PH at acceptable levels

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

LOL! Jumbo air stone. Yeah i dont have a roller mat. I thought about getting one but i would beed to chop up my red sea sump and don’t really want to go that route. I have a skimmer, 4 filter sock tray, refugium that is not growing chaeto and some bio bricks. I also dont feed very heavy one ow two cubes a day.

I get it. Took all of 20 minutes to cut out my Red Sea xxl750 filter sock section. No big deal at all. Plus I got rid of the valve at the same time. Hardest part was sanding down the piping to fit a standard Union on it, but now they sell handy adaptors for that. It’s nice not having to deal with socks anymore, but it’s a struggle not to keep nitrate and phosphate up. I also ran marine pure balls and brightwell no3 xport bricks before the rollermat. All of which I have since removed. One as my nitrates plummeted, and seeing as I had really high icp aluminum results, which dropped to nothing after they were removed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Same and all my parameters are great. Salt level stays perfect. Everybody is happy and fed so I see no reason to do water changes.

That's great for your tank, and by all means don't do them if you don't have an issue, but it is not always true.

The steady stream of posts of ICP results (assuming you believe them to be accurate) that are not perfect and show something significantly elevated is evidence of cases where water changes, whether done or not, are not being done sufficiently to keep that element from accumulating, and where dosing is not a solution.

 

[Reefer_punk]

So you actually do not know if it would be doing better with water changes.

True but I think it is doing great as it is

 

[BanjoBandito]

What is it with this hobby and everyone trying to avoid doing water changes?

I can't count the amount of tank crashes that the owner did 1 of two things - no water changes (everything was great) or no water changes then something changed and did an immediate huge water change.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

That's great for your tank, and by all means don't do them if you don't have an issue, but it is not always true.

The steady stream of posts of ICP results (assuming you believe them to be accurate) that are not perfect and show something significantly elevated is evidence of cases where water changes, whether done or not, are not being done sufficiently to keep that element from accumulating, and where dosing is not a solution.

Pretty much what I am trying to get at. If one is performing the gold standard water change schedule and is sending in samples periodically for ICP with no possibly toxic buildup. Would it be practical to reduce the water change schedule (not necessarily stop it altogether)?