Is the recommended water change percentage outdated now that we have better filtration?

mindme

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I never dose trace elements. I figure most of what the coral etc 'need' is in the varied diet they are fed. Lots of people 'think' (might be confirmation bias) - that in FOWLR tanks - that the fish do better after a water change. I'm not sure I've noticed that.

If I ever decide to do things differently - I would change a small amount of water daily automatically - just no way to do that with where the tank is.

I think it depends on the coral. On my 29g tank, it only has some RBTA, some trash palys and some xenias in it. I do water changes on it about once every 3-6 months, maybe less. The filtration on the tank is just a HOB skimmer. It has GHA that just grows all over the tank, and about every 3 or 4 weeks I'll just pull it off as my nutrient harvest method.

I never dose that tank. I don't feed the anemones directly, but they catch a ton of fish pellets when I feed the 2 clownfish. So I'm sure they get a decent amount of nutrients from it. I don't test that tank either, been almost 2 years since anything other than a salinity test. Easy to keep, low maintenance coral and the overall system with only 2 clownfish has a pretty small bio load.

But my 180g mixed reef is different. I can tell big differences with trace elements vs none. But each corals is different in the responses and what they need. For example, many of them will still be ok and grow slightly without dosing. Zoas, leathers, acans to some degree, etc. However, other coral like my monitiporas will brown, their growth will slow, etc.

I posted in another thread about a coral I thought was dead. It was a cyphastrea. And by dead, I mean looked like it was part of the rock in color, no signs of life and remained this way for months. I didn't do any water changes, all I did was dose trace elements, and the entire thing came back to life. No idea which one it was missing, but it made a big difference. 7 months later and it's grown 3 times the original size.

And even in the cases where they weren't dying or turning brown without the trace elements, they would become pale and their growth would be much slower. With trace elements, the color difference is noticeable, and so is the growth rate.
 

mindme

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No not jail. Fines which for one of my old neighbors in California start at $500, after the first warning, then it escalated to them installing a flow restrictor before the water meter. Now the flow restrictor doesn’t stop him from using too much water, but it severely reduces the flow rate so as to make it so his sprinklers no longer work. He has just now removed all his grass and gone with low demand landscaping on a drip irrigation system and is still over on his usage. I know everything else in the house uses water. I think my rodi wastes a lot more than I realize.

It takes about 4 or 5 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of RODI water.

Water changes are actually kind of expensive.

Might think about using the waste water on the lawn. :D
 

mindme

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Do you have a list of "all" the trace elements a marine ecosystem requires Long term?

I use the reef moonshiners method.

 

Garf

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I use the reef moonshiners method.

Does the moonshiners method have a procedure for reducing high elements?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Costs 2 quid a tonne over here, last time I looked

Quids again. How about a measure we all know, like how many dubloons per stone?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Lol, you lot talk in cups and quarts, what the heck :)

I think we got those from you, back in the day before we shucked the British tyrrany.
 

mindme

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Does the moonshiners method have a procedure for reducing high elements?

It depends on the element. Based on what I've read/seen, most of the time, you can just not dose it and allow the levels to drop naturally over time. Assuming any other sources of it have stopped(aka hunting down that rusted magnet)

And you could probably use some media to pull some elements out. Of course those things will also remove other elements often times.

If the element is really high and dangerous, then your best course is to do a water change. You would only need to get them down to safe numbers, and then let them fall on their own.

You can get the handbook and the calculator for free on the website. You can put in different numbers to see what it recommends.
 

rtparty

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It takes about 4 or 5 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of RODI water.

Water changes are actually kind of expensive.

Might think about using the waste water on the lawn. :D

That's an extremely inefficient RODI system if that's the case. I waste 1.25 gallons of water for every 1 gallon of RODI I make. I could cut that in half by adding a second membrane.

My waste water is loaded with sodium from the water softener. Not the best for plants
 
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That's an extremely inefficient RODI system if that's the case. I waste 1.25 gallons of water for every 1 gallon of RODI I make. I could cut that in half by adding a second membrane.

My waste water is loaded with sodium from the water softener. Not the best for plants
I have two membranes and a booster, it’s supposed to be 1:1 but I suspect that may have gone sideways over time. I may have to delve into that the best I can.
 

rtparty

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Put your waste water line into 1g container and the RO water line into a 1g container. Pull both when the waste container fills up. That will give you a good idea
 

gbroadbridge

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I use the reef moonshiners method.

I know Reef Moonshiners, and I'm pretty sure Andre does not know all the elements, in fact I'm sure he thinks some are superfluous. It's all kinda a big experiment and you guys are the Beta testers :)
 

mandyvan

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It was once my dream to move to Utrecht! I visited once and fell in love. Across the pond in the us it hasn’t quite caught on, although it’s picking up steam. Not too long ago I lost most of my vision so testing is impossible. I can see blobs of color when I look at my tank, but I have zero detail vision at all and a lot of things blend together. I’m trying to stay in the hobby, but it is not easy. I’ve listened to a few YouTube’s of people success with sending in for an ICP test and dosing what’s recommended every so often and it sounds amazing to me. Currently I send in for an ICP once a year just to check on things. Although I don’t participate in the no water change method yet, I really do think it’s time for us to all start heading in that direction.
An app like Be My Eyes could be helpful.
 
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A_Blind_Reefer

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An app like Be My Eyes could be helpful.
It is, I use it every now and then. I feel weird calling random people to help me see. I actually use seeing ai more than anything only as I don’t feel like I’m bothering someone for such mundane things. I have to get over that…I have to get over a lot really. There’s a lot of mental aspects that go along with losing your vision. Thank you for the recommendation though, I truly appreciate it. I started what I call blind camp, about six months ago. They’ve been helping me figure out a lot of daily living skills…..reefing is NOT included with that though! Thank goodness for smart phones! Voiceover helps tremendously although this forum isn’t really friendly for that and many things do not work..or I haven’t figured out how.
 

SunnyX

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I conduct 20% water changes weekly. Mainly, to keep my sand looking a nice white and staving off the cyano. Everything is doing well and generally does better when I am conducting regular water changes.

A long time ago I stopped doing water changes for a year+. It wasn’t the end of the world and my reef still did GOOD, but it wasn’t GREAT. I had odd cyano pop up and my sandbed became a nutrient sink.

Im my situation, regular water changes are a must. Even with my new setup going on six weeks and as pristine as it looks, the water coming out of my sand bed was brown today while conducting a water change.
 

mindme

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That's an extremely inefficient RODI system if that's the case. I waste 1.25 gallons of water for every 1 gallon of RODI I make. I could cut that in half by adding a second membrane.

My waste water is loaded with sodium from the water softener. Not the best for plants

I've just read where that is the normal amount. I've never measured my own to see the difference.

I live in Florida with really hard water. I go through filters ever 4-6 months. But I think it's the membrane that rejects the majority of the water.
 

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