Is the Vertex Cerebra the future of aquarium controllers?

What next-generation controller are you planning on getting


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Bob Escher

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Wow for the first time I have seen so much back and forth and almost bashing the article writer. Yes he hasn't seen the product. But then as he said who has? No one knows much of anything except conjecture.
Jeremy makes a lot of very valid points particularly about security. I don't plan on buying the product I have a grand on a year old APEX so I'm not going anywhere. As a former computer consultant and network admin I was all in for the newest and greatest computers, gadjets, stereo systems and on and on. As he says where's the beta testers, where the reviews. I for one don't like the bulkyness of it. It's too big for me at the moment
All I can say is let's wait and see
 

n2585722

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@jeremy.gosnell
TL: DR all your replies. The controller in the video resembled the RKE and not the apex. Look at the flaps on the side.
The negativity in your article overshadows everything else in the article that could benefit the end user. It appears to be deliberate. Why not just wait, receive it, and review it to give an honest review? Did you just do that for your Apex? later for your fishbit, if it every makes it pass kickstarter? Just saying.
That is not like the RKE in the video. The RKE head unit only has one connector and it is in the center of the back. There are none on the bottom.
 

Marquiseo

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That is not like the RKE in the video. The RKE head unit only has one connector and it is in the center of the back. There are none on the bottom.
Even though it is a mock controller, it resembles the RKE and not the Apex as JG stated.
RKE2.jpg
RKE.JPG
 

Sharvey103

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I agree. Until the product is actually out and in use why put it down. I have the new Apex I am installing on a new 300DD but I also shelled out at the intro price for a Cerebra to put on a smaller specialty tank. I will try them out side by side and decide for myself
 

Daniel@R2R

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Also, I haven't said the Cerebra is going to be anything.

You don't state definitively, that is true, but you do speculate that Cerebra is likely to be "A sleek black box full of nothing but high cost, and supreme disappointment." (quote from the last sentence of your opening post).

I don't know if you intended to come across as negatively as you did (it's hard to imagine otherwise bc of the language used), but I think it's this type of "skepticism" that is seen as negativity. I don't think there's any way to interpret this positively. :) That is your opinion of the controller which you are welcome to, but I do think the blow by blow (and you do deal some heavy blows in your opening post) skeptical overview with no positive counterbalances makes the post seem pretty negative to many readers.
 

Daniel@R2R

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I agree. Until the product is actually out and in use why put it down. I have the new Apex I am installing on a new 300DD but I also shelled out at the intro price for a Cerebra to put on a smaller specialty tank. I will try them out side by side and decide for myself
It would be cool to see a write up or thread comparing the two. :)
 

n2585722

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Marquiseo,
Where did you dig that photo up at. They have not sold one of those since it was first released. That is a RKE original. They have been selling the RKE v2 head unit for around 9 years. It must be made to resemble both then. Like I said there is only one connector so there is only one cord that plugs into the back of the unit and not the bottom. Besides the only voltage is 9 volts DC. Hardly enough to cause sparks or smoke.
 
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jeremy.gosnell

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n2 is correct - what the video depicts and what is actually on that mock controller, is certainly not enough to cause smoke and sparks. If you look at the design of Neptune's connection center on the new Apex, there would be a lot greater chance of smoke and sparks as electronically active items are right there. Funny, you guys have blasted me, claiming that I have made this about Apex v. Vertex (which it's not) - so by that judgement, it shouldn't be okay for Vertex to make it about Vertex v. Digital Aquatics. I guess it's alright that they are suggesting that Digital Aquatics made a poorly designed controller, if what you are suggesting is true. Talk about being one-sided. Like I said, just because a handful of people have plunked down 375 on a beta version controller that makes big promises, doesn't mean it's the bees knees and also doesn't mean that consumers don't have a right to a skeptical analysis of the promises.

What it is about, is the aquarist in need of a new controller who wants to commit to an ecosystem and not have to tear it out and replace it. I would guess that it's a minority of fish-keepers that have a use for multiple controllers, but that many aquarists would want one reliable system. That is who this article is really intended for. It takes information about the Cerebra, its OS, design and characteristics - and points out potential concerns for aquarists looking to make a decision soon. Many people may not want to shell out 375 now and wait until November for a controller, but they may be getting sucked into the hype that this is the next big thing. We don't have much hard demonstration of how the Cerebra works. BRS' video was probably the best example, but it merely showed the Cerebra being used to program a Kalk dosing pump - and the unit wasn't even hooked up to an aquarium. I could go through that demonstration piece by piece with you and point to faults in what I saw (as a long time controller user) but I think the fact that BRS suggested connecting a mouse and keyboard to the Cerebra to program it, says enough.

@mdbannister - I said multiple times in my article that I was excited about Cerebra and saw potential in several features. I am excited about Cerebra, however I think its history should concern any consumer. Just the fact that it's been 5-6 years in development is alarming to me. Pick up a device you recently got (iPhone, Mac, PC, iPad, Android Tablet, etc) and compare it to one you got 5 years ago. The tech industry moves fast, and 5 years is a lifetime, so I struggle to make heads or tails of just where Cerebra falls on its historical timeline. The black box of disappointment was more a historical reference to the Next Cube rather than anything else. To me, as a long time tech observer (and as someone who once worked in that field) the two products have a similar history - long development time, promises of revolution and a similar physical design. In that, the Cerebra feels sort of like the Next Cube - which was in fact a very disappointing product and a complete commercial failure.
 
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Daniel@R2R

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@mdbannister - I said multiple times in my article that I was excited about Cerebra and saw potential in several features. I am excited about Cerebra, however I think its history should concern any consumer. Just the fact that it's been 5-6 years in development is alarming to me. Pick up a device you recently got (iPhone, Mac, PC, iPad, Android Tablet, etc) and compare it to one you got 5 years ago. The tech industry moves fast, and 5 years is a lifetime, so I struggle to make heads or tails of just where Cerebra falls on its historical timeline.

@jeremy.gosnell, I do see that language a couple of times in your post, but I see none of your cause for excitement or any features you see as showing potential. I've read back through it, and I'm still not seeing any positive comments regarding the device (at least none that don't get turned into negative comments). For example, you state,

It’s been reported that using Cerebra, aquarist’s can check their email, watch online videos, even order corals from the main unit’s HD display. While this all sounds fancy, it seems like major league over-kill for an aquarium controller.

The above quote almost gets positive, but then quickly turns into a paragraph outlining all that you see wrong with this idea/feature. Another example,

So far, in the realm of actually monitoring and controlling aquarium products, Vertex has announced some interesting features. One, the temperature probe has an LED light on it, which indicates whether or not temperature is in range. Why this needed, when you have a full color HD screen to determine that, is beyond me. Aside from that, everything else is pretty standard when compared to other next-generation controllers.

Again, you allude to "interesting features" but digress into shooting down the usefulness of the only unique feature you mention (the LED on the temp probe). I'm not even saying I disagree with this assessment, but that there isn't any positive feature named or "features that show potential" being highlighted--the only one highlighted is the one you basically declare to be redundant.

Maybe I'm just missing the comments you intended to display that you were "excited about Cerebra and saw potential in several features." Could you point out those aspects? If I'm missing them, I'm thinking it's probable that a good many other members are missing those aspects in your write-up as well. Thanks! :)
 
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jeremy.gosnell

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@mdbannister any controller that offers an intuitive system, is something that is interesting. When I first heard about Cerebra years ago, it was being peddled as an adaptive controller for the aquarium. Much like smart thermostats learn the behaviors of the people using them and smart security systems learn to recognize a home's occupants - the Cerebra was thought to sort of adapt to individual tanks and aid aquarists in making predictions and easing routine maintenance. However, we don't have any demonstrations that show that, or any discussion from Vertex that explains how that will work. The best demonstration I've personally seen, was BRS programming a single outlet to control a KALK reactor, running the reactor at several times throughout the day and shutting the system off in the event of a high water level or high ph. This is nothing new, as controllers have been doing this type of thing for years. BRS went on to show how "easy" it was to program the Cerebra to do this, but it appeared no easier than programming other controllers already entrenched on the market. While showcasing Angry Birds or web content is neat, and perhaps shows that the Cerebra has a moderately capable graphics system (5 years ago) it has nothing to do with controlling an aquarium. A much better demonstration would have been the controller sending the aquarist a notification that it's nearing daily feeding time, and that within 5 minutes the system will begin slowing pumps and shutting off the main pump to accommodate the feeding. It's quite possible that users will be equally as confused by multiple menus and windows, as they are with text coding. The LED light on the probes is interesting in that it offers at a glance security in knowing your probe is online and working as it should - but again, that could be determined by the on-board display. A better example (and again, one not yet shown) would be Cerebra sending a push notification to the user, saying that the ph probe is nearing the need for calibration and should be calibrated in x amount of days - or that the ph probe is nearing the end of its life and should be replaced in x amount of days. I am not aware that such functions will exist on Cerebra. This is being marketed as the next-gen of aquarium controller and compared to many current smart home products. Most current smart home products offer the types of features I've noted. More so than being negative - it's that sounds good in theory, but what about in day to day usage or if these intuitive ideas are not fleshed out.
 

Daniel@R2R

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@mdbannister any controller that offers an intuitive system, is something that is interesting. When I first heard about Cerebra years ago, it was being peddled as an adaptive controller for the aquarium. Much like smart thermostats learn the behaviors of the people using them and smart security systems learn to recognize a home's occupants - the Cerebra was thought to sort of adapt to individual tanks and aid aquarists in making predictions and easing routine maintenance. However, we don't have any demonstrations that show that, or any discussion from Vertex that explains how that will work. The best demonstration I've personally seen, was BRS programming a single outlet to control a KALK reactor, running the reactor at several times throughout the day and shutting the system off in the event of a high water level or high ph. This is nothing new, as controllers have been doing this type of thing for years. BRS went on to show how "easy" it was to program the Cerebra to do this, but it appeared no easier than programming other controllers already entrenched on the market. While showcasing Angry Birds or web content is neat, and perhaps shows that the Cerebra has a moderately capable graphics system (5 years ago) it has nothing to do with controlling an aquarium. A much better demonstration would have been the controller sending the aquarist a notification that it's nearing daily feeding time, and that within 5 minutes the system will begin slowing pumps and shutting off the main pump to accommodate the feeding. It's quite possible that users will be equally as confused by multiple menus and windows, as they are with text coding. The LED light on the probes is interesting in that it offers at a glance security in knowing your probe is online and working as it should - but again, that could be determined by the on-board display. A better example (and again, one not yet shown) would be Cerebra sending a push notification to the user, saying that the ph probe is nearing the need for calibration and should be calibrated in x amount of days - or that the ph probe is nearing the end of its life and should be replaced in x amount of days. I am not aware that such functions will exist on Cerebra. This is being marketed as the next-gen of aquarium controller and compared to many current smart home products. Most current smart home products offer the types of features I've noted. More so than being negative - it's that sounds good in theory, but what about in day to day usage or if these intuitive ideas are not fleshed out.
So...if I may summarize, you're saying that if the intuitive functions of the controller work as they were marketed, that would be something worth being excited about and would reveal potential advancement. However, (from your original post) you are not currently seeing evidence of that potential. Is that an accurate summary? I'm gathering that at present, you no longer feel the same excitement or see the potential in the features you initially hoped for. I only say this based on the overwhelmingly "skeptical" tone and language of your post. I'm not seeing anything in the original post that conveys any level of hopefulness or excitement.
 
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revhtree

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So...if I may summarize, you're saying that if the intuitive functions of the controller work as they were marketed, that would be something worth being excited about and would reveal potential advancement. However, (from your original post) you are not currently seeing evidence of that potential. Is that an accurate summary? I'm gathering that at present, you no longer feel the same excitement or see the potential in the features you initially hoped for.

Who needs a shrink when you have Daniel!! Ha!
 

Daniel@R2R

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revhtree

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Makes me feel looney! Ha!
 

reef_ranch

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Ok guys, I'm now going to add to your need for a shrink (and I have a B.S. in Psychology, so if you need someone in a pinch...)

@mdbannister any controller that offers an intuitive system, is something that is interesting. When I first heard about Cerebra years ago, it was being peddled as an adaptive controller for the aquarium. Much like smart thermostats learn the behaviors of the people using them and smart security systems learn to recognize a home's occupants - the Cerebra was thought to sort of adapt to individual tanks and aid aquarists in making predictions and easing routine maintenance. However, we don't have any demonstrations that show that, or any discussion from Vertex that explains how that will work. The best demonstration I've personally seen, was BRS programming a single outlet to control a KALK reactor, running the reactor at several times throughout the day and shutting the system off in the event of a high water level or high ph. This is nothing new, as controllers have been doing this type of thing for years. BRS went on to show how "easy" it was to program the Cerebra to do this, but it appeared no easier than programming other controllers already entrenched on the market. While showcasing Angry Birds or web content is neat, and perhaps shows that the Cerebra has a moderately capable graphics system (5 years ago) it has nothing to do with controlling an aquarium. A much better demonstration would have been the controller sending the aquarist a notification that it's nearing daily feeding time, and that within 5 minutes the system will begin slowing pumps and shutting off the main pump to accommodate the feeding. It's quite possible that users will be equally as confused by multiple menus and windows, as they are with text coding. The LED light on the probes is interesting in that it offers at a glance security in knowing your probe is online and working as it should - but again, that could be determined by the on-board display. A better example (and again, one not yet shown) would be Cerebra sending a push notification to the user, saying that the ph probe is nearing the need for calibration and should be calibrated in x amount of days - or that the ph probe is nearing the end of its life and should be replaced in x amount of days. I am not aware that such functions will exist on Cerebra. This is being marketed as the next-gen of aquarium controller and compared to many current smart home products. Most current smart home products offer the types of features I've noted. More so than being negative - it's that sounds good in theory, but what about in day to day usage or if these intuitive ideas are not fleshed out.

I've been to three of the last 5 MACNAs and spent a good amount of time talking to the Vertex reps about the Cerebra and have followed it in the limited press it has gotten over the years. Your post is the first I've heard that the Cerebra "was being peddled as an adaptive controller ... thought to sort of adapt to individual tanks and aid aquarists in making predictions and easing routine maintenance"? Where was that done?

Reefbuilders' announcement (which may have been written by Vertex for all we know) describes it as: "Unlike the current generation of mainstream aquarium controllers, the Vertex Cerebra is designed with a graphical user interface in mind, just like your android smartphone, and the abolishment of tedious and cryptic coding commands."

The Vertex 2016 release video touts the Cerebra with the phrases "no more coding", "menu driven programming", "cloud access", "Android-open source-write your own app".

Even back in 2011 when Vertex issued the first press release, there was no mention of it being an "adaptive controller" able to "aid aquarists in making predictions".

So far, from what I've seen heard and read, Vertex is trying to do exactly what is has promised over the years. (And if you want, you can write your own program to remind you when to calibrate your pH probes or change your water or anything else us reef geeks can dream up). So, despite your hopefully well-intentioned warnings, I'm still holding out hope that it does.
 

chefjpaul

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Ok guys, I'm now going to add to your need for a shrink (and I have a B.S. in Psychology, so if you need someone in a pinch...)



I've been to three of the last 5 MACNAs and spent a good amount of time talking to the Vertex reps about the Cerebra and have followed it in the limited press it has gotten over the years. Your post is the first I've heard that the Cerebra "was being peddled as an adaptive controller ... thought to sort of adapt to individual tanks and aid aquarists in making predictions and easing routine maintenance"? Where was that done?

Reefbuilders' announcement (which may have been written by Vertex for all we know) describes it as: "Unlike the current generation of mainstream aquarium controllers, the Vertex Cerebra is designed with a graphical user interface in mind, just like your android smartphone, and the abolishment of tedious and cryptic coding commands."

The Vertex 2016 release video touts the Cerebra with the phrases "no more coding", "menu driven programming", "cloud access", "Android-open source-write your own app".

Even back in 2011 when Vertex issued the first press release, there was no mention of it being an "adaptive controller" able to "aid aquarists in making predictions".

So far, from what I've seen heard and read, Vertex is trying to do exactly what is has promised over the years. (And if you want, you can write your own program to remind you when to calibrate your pH probes or change your water or anything else us reef geeks can dream up). So, despite your hopefully well-intentioned warnings, I'm still holding out hope that it does.
So...... it won't charge and drive my lithium battery - driverless Tonka truck?

Such a shame
 

chefjpaul

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I would welcome @Vertex Technologies to address some of the points made in this thread that they feel are not true even though they are not a sponsor. We want to be fair and would love to hear from them.
They should become a sponsor, just for the business aspect of having a forum monitor on their side to address issues and concerns.

Saves money tackling multiple people and conversations at once instead of having customer service , email, and website tied up constantly, which will probably happen soon.
 
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jeremy.gosnell

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Quite honestly I can't remember in lucid detail what I read or heard 5 years ago. I do however remember hearing about the Cerebra as being an intuitive controller. However, that may have been the Elos aquarium controller that was circulating for a while, or the Digital Aquatics Archon - or one of the other devices that's come and gone in that time period, that offered adaptive programming. At any rate, mdbannister asked me what controller functions I would shine a positive light on, and those are them. I don't see where using Android on a device, and a graphical interface of menus and point and click programming necessarily propels the controller world any further than it already is. It is Vertex, Reef Builders and others, not I, that are claiming the Cerebra is a giant leap forward in aquarium controllers. As I've said before, maybe it is. I haven't seen anything up until this point that convinces me of such, and certainly not enough to rush out a spend 375 bucks on it. From the demonstration I saw on BRS TV, if you're looking for something quick and simple to use, I would recommend a Fishbit. I used a Fishbit during the beta testing phase, and it was easier to use than what I saw on BRS' demonstration. In BRS' video, Ryan specifically spoke about smart home technology (even showing a photo of a smart home dashboard) in talking about the Cerebra as well as controllers in general. At any time, I can tell my Amazon Alexis to dim the lights, adjust the heat or secure the house. That's the reality of smart home technology today. Those are the features that I would shine a positive light on, were they being offered on the Cerebra (or any controller for that matter).
 
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jeremy.gosnell

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Also acesq I think you are putting the cart before the horse in determining that you can write your own program to remind you when to change your ph probe (or calibrate it). You could write an app, and that app would have to meet the standards of the Android store - unless Vertex is operating something different, which hasn't been disclosed - even though users are unboxing units as we speak. Truly measuring if a ph probe is out of calibration would take more than a simple countdown timer from the time you installed the ph probe, or last calibrated it. I can certainly agree (with Ryan from BRS) that controller technology is behind the times when compared to smart home/etc technology - but I think both the market size for aquarium controllers, along with the reliability factor play a role in that. Quite frankly, I am done spending time on a topic that I've lost interest in. Luckily, the post reached some folks who understood what I was trying to convey. People who have pre-ordered a Cerebra are invested now, for better or worse. I would encourage anyone to learn more about the controller once we have first hand user information. Heck, if I am impressed by what I see, I may end up with one. I would also suggest aquarists error on the side of caution when biting the bait of advertising schemes that look suspicious. If you don't think Vertex's marketing, development, etc of Cerebra looks suspicious - then there isn't much I have to offer you.
 
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