is there a calculation to get an equivalant carbon comparing vodka and nopox?

[RobertPoorman]

is there a calculation to get the same carbon equivalent comparing nopox to 80 proof vodka?

 

[sfin52]

is there a calculation to get the same carbon equivalent comparing nopox to 80 proof vodka?

Good to see you on here.

 

[sfin52]

@fabutahoun @Fin thoughts.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is a far from trivial calculation if you want to be exacting, and there are many ways to actually do it.

If you just want the basic idea of weight of organic added, 80 proof vodka is 40% organic by weight. Standard vinegar ("5% acidity") is 5% organic by weight.

So in that simplistic sense, vodka is 8 times more potent than vinegar. Not a perfect way to think about it, but good enough for many purposes.

For the main ingredients, NOPOX is roughly one part vinegar plus one half part vodka and one half part water.

Thus it is very roughly 25% vodka and 50% vinegar.

Translating that into vodka, NOPOX is 25% vodka plus 6% vodka (from the vinegar) ~ 31% vodka equivalents.

Thus, I'd start at a dose of 1/3 as much vodka as NOPOX if you want to switch to vodka.

 

[fabutahoun]

You Can Mix your own NOPX with the same ratios that Randy mentioned.
I use 99.9% ethanol and 5% vinegar to make my own.

I use
150 ml 99.9 % Ethanol
500 ml white Vinegar, 5% acetic acid
350 ml RODI

for Vodka you can use:

375ml of Vodka
500ml of vinegar
125 ml of RODI

And this is a Quick video I posted a few days ago about this mix

 

[Rp8]

How much would u start dosing with? For a 75 gal

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How much would u start dosing with? For a 75 gal

Of what?

 

[Cell]

Oh, and for what it's worth, I too am a DIY NOPOX user (as determined by a college professor and his grad students using NMR)....mix of 500 mls vinegar (5%), 375 mls vodka (80 proof), and 125 mls RO/DI water. Dose as per instructions for NOPOX.

The recipe I've quoted above comes from the "Sherminator" post on that other site as well.....and thank his grad students for doing the testing! If I remember correctly, he didn't find any methanol, and if so, it would be there in trace amounts. I've been using this recipe for maybe about a year now, and love it....it works....and I use the NOPOX instructional dosing of:

Measured Level (ppm) ....................Daily Dose ml/100 L (25 gal)
NO3 above 10 ---------------------------------------3
NO3 above 2.5, but less than 10 ------------------2
NO3 above 1 but less than 2.5 ---------------------1

Found this awhile back and have been using with success.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Why does everyone add water to their mixes?

 

[Rp8]

Of what?

How much of the ethanol vinegar mix would u start dosing in 95 total gal?

 

[redfishbluefish]

Why does everyone add water to their mixes?

The intent of the Professor's and Grad Student's work was to match the concentrations of NOPOX....which required the addition of water. It also now makes dosing the same as the original NOPOX. If you wish, simply mix vodka and acetic acid together and go for it......this isn't brain surgery....close is good enough.

 

[redfishbluefish]

How much of the ethanol vinegar mix would u start dosing in 95 total gal?

My experience is to start slow. Realize all other bacteria/algae/cyano/etc. utilizes this mixture to grow....so start slow. It also depends on your nitrate and phosphate concentrations. Assuming they are high, I'd start with 1ml per 25 gallons of tank volume....so 4 mls. I'd run that for a week, and if no issues, up to 2 mls per 25 gallons.....so 8 mls/day. And now another week, and no issues, maximum dose of 3 mls per 25 gallons....12 mls. Now monitor nitrates and phosphates and follow the instructions for NOPOX, dropping the dose as nitrates and phosphate lower, until you get to the 1ml per 25 gallon "maintenance" dose.

 

[Rp8]

Ok thank you. Sounds like a manageable plan

 

[redfishbluefish]

You Can Mix your own NOPX with the same ratios that Randy mentioned.
I use 99.9% ethanol and 5% vinegar to make my own.

I use
150 ml 99.9 % Ethanol
500 ml white Vinegar, 5% acetic acid
350 ml RODI

for Vodka you can use:

375ml of Vodka
500ml of vinegar
125 ml of RODI

And this is a Quick video I posted a few days ago about this mix

@fabutahoun , if it was me, I'd be more comfortable using 95% ethanol. The reason is that water "binds" to ethanol (an azeotrope), that boils (distills) at the same temperature as ethanol. So distilling ethanol, the best you can get is 95%. To get that last bit of water out of the ethanol, they use benzene (and I'm an old chemist, and that's what they used in my day), and I'm not sure what that residual benzene would do over time in your tank. All I know is that we never used the 100 ethanol for our college punch parties in the early 70's

 

[Rp8]

My experience is to start slow. Realize all other bacteria/algae/cyano/etc. utilizes this mixture to grow....so start slow. It also depends on your nitrate and phosphate concentrations. Assuming they are high, I'd start with 1ml per 25 gallons of tank volume....so 4 mls. I'd run that for a week, and if no issues, up to 2 mls per 25 gallons.....so 8 mls/day. And now another week, and no issues, maximum dose of 3 mls per 25 gallons....12 mls. Now monitor nitrates and phosphates and follow the instructions for NOPOX, dropping the dose as nitrates and phosphate lower, until you get to the 1ml per 25 gallon "maintenance" dose.

Well my nitrates are fine. It's my phosphates. No2 Is at 5. Phosphates is at .07, with turf algae trying to take over. Will using this still work? And hopefully not bottom out my nitrates?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well my nitrates are fine. It's my phosphates. No2 Is at 5. Phosphates is at .07, with turf algae trying to take over. Will using this still work? And hopefully not bottom out my nitrates?

I do not recommend organic carbon dosing if the goal is lowering phosphate alone. It generally has a much bigger effect on nitrate due to denitrification which consumes organics, reduces nitrate, and does nothing significant for phosphate.