Is there any real benefit to full spectrum lighting?

[Spare time]

Aside from looks, is there any benefit for the corals concerning full spectrum vs actinic? I hate the actinic look, so you'll never see me lighting the tank like it's supposed to play a show in Vegas next week. But I was curious. Is there any real benefit to going full spectrum?

Corals and other organisms can definitely use a wide spectrum of light via various photopigments

However, we seem to often forget that we are keeping fish who use coloration in their communication and behavior, and normally live in a very vivid and colorful world. I personally dislike depriving the fish of this, and I often wonder what abnormal behavioral issues arise in reef tanks as a result of an abnormal environment.

 

[atoll]

Is there more to coral health than just chlorophyll when it comes to those course that arent responsable for it perhaps that we don't yet know about?

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Is it full spectrum that is important or a certain few wavelengths? There is no logical reason that green and yellow would have any impact on growth, just based on what we know about chlorophyll.

Peak growth is achieved when Chlorophyll A spectrum is matches as closely as possible to the absorption graph as possible and when PAR is maximized. Whether that is a collection of different single wavelength LEDs or full spectrum lighting does not matter.

If for example you increased just violet and blue to the point where to coral just started to get tip burn but didn't have any of the red spectrum it will grow slower than the same intensity of blue/violet but including the red. Including the red does not require you to turn down the blues even though you just increased PAR. Tip burn seems to be a composite of both PAR and how much a specific wavelength exceeds the absorption curve.

 

[Spare time]

Is there more to coral health than just chlorophyll when it comes to those course that arent responsable for it perhaps that we don't yet know about?

Check out Dana Riddle's ideal spectrum thread on here. I think it would answer your questions.

 

[Spare time]

Peak growth is achieved when Chlorophyll B spectrum is matches as closely as possible to the absorption graph as possible and when PAR is maximized. Whether that is a collection of different single wavelength LEDs or full spectrum lighting does not matter.

If for example you increased just violet and blue to the point where to coral just started to get tip burn but didn't have any of the red spectrum it will grow slower than the same intensity of blue/violet but including the red. Including the red does not require you to turn down the blues even though you just increased PAR. Tip burn seems to be a composite of both PAR and how much a specific wavelength exceeds the absorption curve.

Zooxanthellae does not contain chlorophyll b

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Zooxanthellae does not contain chlorophyll b

Fixed in post. Meant A. C is also important but less dominant than A.

 

[atoll]

Check out Dana Riddle's ideal spectrum thread on here. I think it would answer your questions.

I did say that we don't know. However, I guess if there is it is yet to be discovered.

 

[Spare time]

I did say that we don't know. However, I guess if there is it is yet to be discovered.

I might be able to share some papers with you when I get back home. If I remember I'll attach some other neat papers here

 

[Dave-T]

Check out Dana Riddle's ideal spectrum thread on here. I think it would answer your questions.

So others don’t have to search:

Just for Fun - The Perfect Spectrum

There is no such thing as a *perfect* spectrum for corals, but I arrived at these numbers while working on a project. It includes UV-A as well as the normally considered violet-red wavelengths. Again, just for giggles, but its fairly close. UV (350-399) 13.6% Violet (400-430) 22.3% Blue...

www.reef2reef.com

Interesting…

 

[Shooter6]

My view is that full spectrum lighting in the natural reef environment is only incident at the shallowest depths, shallower than your average frag tank. If we want to keep corals that naturally inhabit depths of say 5-10 metres then the filtering effect of seawater is an important factor.
I USED to be a proponent of the full 400W MH setup.
Since the advent of LEDs I believe a hybrid LED/ T5 arrangement is the best option, all things considered.

Our lights other then mh cannot compete with par and spectrum at water surface, therefore. In shallow frag tanks only mh could compare to full sunlight. In any of our reefs we are filtering out the white light unnaturally for viewing pleasure, not corals. Anything other then Deepwater corals are going to be benefited by a fuller spectrum.

 

[damsels are not mean]

Our lights other then mh cannot compete with par and spectrum at water surface, therefore. In shallow frag tanks only mh could compare to full sunlight. In any of our reefs we are filtering out the white light unnaturally for viewing pleasure, not corals. Anything other then Deepwater corals are going to be benefited by a fuller spectrum.

Is there actually any evidence that "full spectrum" is beneficial to corals, though? Knowing what we do about photosynthesis, there seems to me to be no reason a coral would benefit from or even "notice" green, yellow, or even blue-green light. Is there actually any evidence that corals are healthier or faster growing with the presence of red light as opposed to just more blue?

 

[jmatt]

This isn't much of a contribution from a scientific standpoint, but I'll offer this: If there was some magic spectral recipe that made corals grow faster or display better, you'd know it by now.

We will continue to see progress in lighting technology but I expect that the gains will start to become more and more marginal.

Now if there was some kind of coral growth hormone technology, that'd be interesting.

 

[Spare time]

Our lights other then mh cannot compete with par and spectrum at water surface, therefore. In shallow frag tanks only mh could compare to full sunlight. In any of our reefs we are filtering out the white light unnaturally for viewing pleasure, not corals. Anything other then Deepwater corals are going to be benefited by a fuller spectrum.

I feel like you don't have experience with LED lights if you don't think they can beat or match the par of a mh lol. Also, that natural level of par is not good. Those shallow water corals often only photosynthesize at dusk and dawn because of the intense light.

 

[Shooter6]

I feel like you don't have experience with LED lights if you don't think they can beat or match the par of a mh lol. Also, that natural level of par is not good. Those shallow water corals often only photosynthesize at dusk and dawn because of the intense light.

Your feelings mean zilch to me. As for par and spectrum leds are still trying to match t5 abilities, which in turn were trying to match mh abilities.

I dont want this to turn into another mh vs led thread,

I will say my reef keeping experience started in 1988.
Mh
T12
T8vho
Compact florescent
T5
And leds have all been used by me.
My current sps 8x3x2 400g and 8x30x24 300g are lit by leds with my own custom layout.

Now leds do have their benefits BUT they do not produce better spectrum then other options. They is just fact. The color options of leds is limited to about 12-15. The white leds are blue lights with phosphor to alter the color, therefore not producing true full spectrum.
They don't produce real uv especially the full spectrum of the uv spectrum nor ir light.

This is simple to understand an factual.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Now leds do have their benefits BUT they do not produce better spectrum then other options. They is just fact.

That is not a fact. MH gives an abundance of 360nm that far exceeds natural sunlight, which has been proven in numerous studies to cause cancer in humans, fish, and corals. Thus was discussed as one of the likely reasons why Sanjay had unexpected RTN taking out corals around the 5 year mark. He eventually switched to LEDs and was much happier.

True UV has very little absorbtion for growth of chlorophyll A or C and is a detriment not a benefit.

It was also shown in the Coral Lab study and the WWC study that the radion AB+ spectrum increased coral growth by 10% compared to the "proven halide" spectrum. This is the same reason why a pure halide tank was always beat out by one that also used reef Brite strips or actinic.

What you are missing here is that each lighting types have their pros and cons, but LED has the ability to mimic all the pros of each kind without any of the cons as long as it has proper lenses, the right mix of wavelengths, and something to diffuse it.

 

[Spare time]

Your feelings mean zilch to me. As for par and spectrum leds are still trying to match t5 abilities, which in turn were trying to match mh abilities.

I dont want this to turn into another mh vs led thread,

I will say my reef keeping experience started in 1988.
Mh
T12
T8vho
Compact florescent
T5
And leds have all been used by me.
My current sps 8x3x2 400g and 8x30x24 300g are lit by leds with my own custom layout.

Now leds do have their benefits BUT they do not produce better spectrum then other options. They is just fact. The color options of leds is limited to about 12-15. The white leds are blue lights with phosphor to alter the color, therefore not producing true full spectrum.
They don't produce real uv especially the full spectrum of the uv spectrum nor ir light.

This is simple to understand an factual.

Sure, keep saying that to yourself. There is no point in "debating" with you and I think you and and I both know this. Once again we see a MH user on this forum coming to throw their bait out into a thread irrelevant to MH vs LED. I've learned that replying to people who do this just seems to fuel them and derail every thread they touch

 

[oreo54]

I dont want this to turn into another mh vs led thread,

Hows that working for you?

 

[SilvermistInc]

dang it, shooter. Quit turning every lighting post into a MH vs LED argument.

 

[Shooter6]

That is not a fact. MH gives an abundance of 360nm that far exceeds natural sunlight, which has been proven in numerous studies to cause cancer in humans, fish, and corals. Thus was discussed as one of the likely reasons why Sanjay had unexpected RTN taking out corals around the 5 year mark. He eventually switched to LEDs and was much happier.

True UV has very little absorbtion for growth of chlorophyll A or C and is a detriment not a benefit.

It was also shown in the Coral Lab study and the WWC study that the radion AB+ spectrum increased coral growth by 10% compared to the "proven halide" spectrum. This is the same reason why a pure halide tank was always beat out by one that also used reef Brite strips or actinic.

What you are missing here is that each lighting types have their pros and cons, but LED has the ability to mimic all the pros of each kind without any of the cons as long as it has proper lenses, the right mix of wavelengths, and something to diffuse it.

Hilarious, the harmful rays are.filtered.by the protective glass, and besides all the other benificial colors of the spectrum, both visible and invisible, the uv/ir also have the benefit of killing bacteria. Bacteria such as cyano and dinos. Since you want to try and use Sanjay as an example, Mike Paletta, his equal is adding mh back for these exact reasons.

Again let's stop this mh vs led right here right now. This is a post about full spectrum not leds vs mh.

 

[oreo54]

Hilarious, the harmful rays are.filtered.by the protective glass, and besides all the other benificial colors of the spectrum, both visible and invisible, the uv/ir also have the benefit of killing bacteria. Bacteria such as cyano and dinos. Since you want to try and use Sanjay as an example, Mike Paletta, his equal is adding mh back for these exact reasons.

Again let's stop this mh vs led right here right now. This is a post about full spectrum not leds vs mh.

IF you actually listened to Tuillio you would know the specific mh's Palletta is using has no uv emissions...AFAICT
It's on "tape"

If you wanted it to " end" why do you keep throwing logs on the fire?

A simple neutral white led has more of a VISIBLE full spectrum than any of the high k
mh's out there.
Same with a moderately blue enhanced white/ blue led array.
Except for the crazy spikes this is not hard to do w/ leds.

Uv/ir is still debatable..
In fairness it still can go either way.