Is there any real benefit to full spectrum lighting?

[oreo54]

Blue Plus is not full spectrum. You do know that right? Coral plus or aquablue special are closer to gull spectrum.

Fair enough .
Coral plus. Not even close to full spectrum daylight. Seems to be missing HUGE chunks of " colors".
These are from ati btw.

Since most people don' t like the looks of the b+ sure add some color..
Though in multi bulb array it seems b+ dominates.

 

[oreo54]

Last one aquablue special..

I will make an assumption here about this closer full spectrum tube that as a stand alone tube without any added blue centric tubes .... Not so popular.

3ed party spectrums and photos of bulb colors .
Which ones look like daylight?
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/g...son-pics-par-and-a-whole-mess-of-data.200357/

Now to be " perfectly clear" I have nothing whatsoever against daylight full spectrum lighting..... anywhere .

Oh and keep in mind the trickery of photographs . Best to judge by spectrums.

 

[oreo54]

Start at 31..

 

[Shooter6]

 

[Shooter6]

Last one aquablue special..

I will make an assumption here about this closer full spectrum tube that as a stand alone tube without any added blue centric tubes .... Not so popular.

3ed party spectrums and photos of bulb colors .
Which ones look like daylight?
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/g...son-pics-par-and-a-whole-mess-of-data.200357/

Now to be " perfectly clear" I have nothing whatsoever against daylight full spectrum lighting..... anywhere .

Oh and keep in mind the trickery of photographs . Best to judge by spectrums.

Closest to true full spectrum would probably be aquablue special mixed with a blue plus and a 65k.

 

[Lasse]

Most of the T5 tubes use the RGB trick in order to give you a more daylight approach when you look at the aquarium. For your eyes it looks like a full spectrum (all wavelengths) but it is not. However this small amounts of green and read give you mostly all of the visible reflektion colours you need and the three peaks - blue, green and red trick your eyes (or brain) to think it is a full spectra (white) . Red fish are red, yellow are yellow and so on. In the same time - there is not so much radiation in the "lumen window" - the weak fluorescens from your corals can be seen - there is not much of radiation that is able to dazzle them (in the "lumen window)

7760 K with RGB

7750 K with phosphorous coated blue LEDs (White LED)

Both of these will give your eyes the same hue of white. However - if you test these two settings in a normal reef aquarium (without GAC, ozone or oxidators) - the second spectra will looks more yellow. This is caused of all yellowing substances build up in a reef aquaria with time. The jus reflect the yellow photons. But in the first setting - your eyes have a chance to discover the very faint fluorescence colours your coral produce from the heavy blue part of the spectra and you will also see all of the reflection colours your corals and fish have.

This spectra will give you a good pop of the fluorescing colours but everything that has a reflecting colour other than blue will not be seen. A red fish will not be able to be detected at all

This spectra - with the same amount of blue will on the other hand give you a daylight impression and nearly all reflecting colours will be able to detected by your eyes. The florescence will be able to detected by your eyes and you will have a more colourful aquarium

This setting will dazzle out the florescence but still give a daylight impression - in spite of the fact that this setting give you more blue light

This is the reason why I do not like "white" LEDs of lower K - if you want a colourful aquarium - showing both fluorescence and reflection colours - use heavy blue but add some RGB. In most case - it is enough to put a cheap RGB stripe over the aquarium. Will corals thrive in heavy blue radiation - yes but they will also - most of them thrive in full spectrum to but if you run your corals at 200 PAR heavy blue - you cant just add full spectrum and rise the PAR. However - I run my White

Range is rather large.

This graph show that the majority of Acropora species (75 %) can be found in depths swallower than 5 m and that 58 % of them can be found from the surface and down. This is a total other picture compared with the general ideas among acropora aquarists.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Jon's Reef]

If the natural light spectrum were obtained, what about the other parameters? Nutrients, flow, biome?

How does natural vs blue spectra affect nuisance algae growth?

In nature many of the corals appear reddish-brown. If one prefers the "aquacultured colored up" look is a few hours of blue in the evening enough to develop the fluorescent proteins?

What about the intended end game of the coral? For coral restoration projects, the natural coloration and desire to not adapt to aquaculture environments is required. But if the desire is to not put the coral back in the ocean, rather to adapt it to have the most "dazzle".... does that change the ideal spectra? For example, many of the companies (WWC, TSA, etc) use blue spectra when adapting corals to the reef tank environment with focus on both hardiness and bright coloration.

 

[oreo54]

@Lasse
Why whitesdull


Well more why most white leds "look" dull and yes yellowing is mostly contaminants in the water column.
You can combat the color dulling somewhat with high R(f) close to 100 (new cri) white leds like the Bridgelux and "fresh fish" COBS.
There are numerous small emitters but most either hard to find or hard to work with or in the case of violet pump emitters "may" have shorter lifespans.

A blue component due to
either phosphor photoluminescence or InGaN electroluminescence with the
peak wavelength at about 460 nm was found to be an optimal one for the
high-fidelity, color-dulling, and color-preference LEDs. The high-fidelity
and color-preference LEDs need red phosphors with the peak wavelength of
610-615 nm. The high-fidelity LEDs were shown to require a true green
(~530 nm) phosphor component, whereas a cyan (~510 nm) component is
the prerequisite of the color-saturating and color-preference LEDs. Deep-
blue (~445 nm) and deep-red (~625 nm) components are required for the
color-saturating LEDs. A broad yellow band similar to that of Ce 3+
emission is to be used in the color-dulling LEDs. The SPDs of practical
phosphor blends for the high-fidelity, color-saturating, and color-preference
p-c LEDs are demonstrated

 

[GARRIGA]

I can see why manufacturers make profit off lights. Gets so confusing that at some point you just accept as told and go layout that dough. Much simpler to run their recommended program or follow BRS recommended then trying to make logic of all the conflicting opinions or might be as simple as running what pleases the eye since in the end the main reason for this hobby is to please the eye, for most. Plus a par meter. There we don't seem to have much confusion although throw PUR in and suddenly there's more confusion.

 

[oreo54]

For fun and a side note.. anyone care to mark "common" aquarium corals on this chart?
Species names change and the chart won't be all inclusive but might be interesting ..

 

[oreo54]

For example, many of the companies (WWC, TSA, etc) use blue spectra when adapting corals to the reef tank environment with focus on both hardiness and bright coloration.

There is another component in this that can't be ignored.. End users tank.

The final "product" will be more acceptable if it looks like what is sold in the users tank.

Since most seem to run heavy blue the product should be "finished" in a heavy blue environment.
Less surprises to the buyer.

Even then colors may change due to water parameters..

 

[Lasse]

@Lasse
Why whitesdull


Well more why most white leds "look" dull and yes yellowing is mostly contaminants in the water column.
You can combat the color dulling somewhat with high R(f) close to 100 (new cri) white leds like the Bridgelux and "fresh fish" COBS.
There are numerous small emitters but most either hard to find or hard to work with or in the case of violet pump emitters "may" have shorter lifespans.

This is a total another discussion - In aquarium - it is not white LEDs that create the "dull" environment - its heavy blue. You miss my main argument against "white" LEDs - They dazzle the faint fluorescent sources - you do not see them because the majority of the radiation (and thus the reflection) is in the middle of the "lumen" window - where the eye is most sensitive. You do not see the forest because of all trees - old Swedish saying

Sincerely Lasse

 

[oreo54]

Closest to true full spectrum would probably be aquablue special mixed with a blue plus and a 65k.

Ask and you shall receive..
Nowhere close tro daylight..
Really more of a RGB heavy blue array..
CRI 100 = D65 (daylight at 6500k)
And I even boosted 6500k (2500 lumens x 2)
CRI... 10

 

[oreo54]

This is a total another discussion - In aquarium - it is not white LEDs that create the "dull" environment - its heavy blue. You miss my main argument against "white" LEDs - They dazzle the faint fluorescent sources - you do not see them because the majority of the radiation (and thus the reflection) is in the middle of the "lumen" window - where the eye is most sensitive. You do not see the forest because of all trees - old Swedish saying

Sincerely Lasse

No I got that.
But...
As you go down in the blue range ones eyes are less sensitive to it. The more say green flourescence will "appear" (as long as one stays in the absorption band of the pigment).
when you wash the tank in "yellow green" that flourescence will be drowned out by it.
There is the trick that as you go down to violet your red cones are also stimulated creating "violet".

All of it is a trick of the eye of course..
Your RGB trick has little dulling yellow.. though with high enough intensity it will wash out and dull flourescence..'
I can't explain it any more than just calling it glare.
The human study in my pdf shows this . More a matter of perception than physics I suspect.

Anyway either approach has the same bottom line..

Use of high k and or poor quality leds washes out tanks overall. Both chromo and flourescent pigments.
AFAICT
Use of high monochrome lights will dull chromo colors by simply not having nm's available for reflection..
Using monochromatic colors that miss the excitation bands (or only graze the edges) will dull or eliminate flourescence.

Reason t5's and MH's are "perceived" as more colorful is the RGB trick using salts or phosphors more than any talk of "full spectrum" .

As to dull or subtle fluorescence best way to see it is using the absorption band with the least human eye visibility and at a low enough level for the eye to perceive the fluorescence.
Of course at the expense of chromoproteins generally.

Since many of the fluorescence is in the highly visible greenish range.. this is not too difficult.

Of course I'm open to modification of this "philosophy".

Color science and human perception is both art and physics..

history.. Early florescent did not use RGB and were quite ugly in perceived color.
sorry just for fun..

The Fluorescent Lamp - Phosphors

However by modern standards, the halophosphate materials are relatively inefficient and deliver inferior lighting quality compared to newer technologies. Owing to the proximity of these peaks to the colour receptors in the human eye, a very high colour rendering index is achieved. Typically this is of the order of Ra85 for most products, which marks a considerable improvement over Halophosphate materials. The two CRI wheel diagrams in Figure F11 compare the colour rendering quality of a typical neutral white triphosphor tube with a halophosphate lamp delivering the same colour temperature. It will at once be appreciated that the triphosphor technology shows far superior rendition of almost all of the fourteen CIE test colours. In particular they offer an enormous improvement in the score for the R9 index, representing saturated red colours.

 

[oreo54]

A bit o/t but it is regards to white leds and perception..or why some are generally a bad idea..

For me personally when looking “through” bad quality LED I often get the feeling I’m looking through some weird fog. It’s not that the image is unclear but it still hard to focus for some reason. High CRI light often has the opposite effect that everything looks very vibrant and sharp.

The color white and CRI/Ra - quinled.info

The color White If you want to use lighting in your house, white LEDs are basically the only way to go. RGB lights look cool, but for normal lighting at the place where you eat, read or cook, any other color then white isn’t going to work. Colored light can be used for accent lighting […]

quinled.info

Unless it is a camera/internet thing.. bottom left photo is high cri "daylight" white in my opinion.

 

[Shooter6]

I consider this full spectrum look, not blue heavy that people are trying to claim is the natural look of the reef.
This reminds me of 10-14k mh , or a mix of blue+ and aquablue special maybe an coral plus thrown in as well.

If the atintic look is what you like, with neon glowing coral that's fine I'm not knocking it. But it's not natural looking and feel saying it is is a lie.

This isn't a knock on leds either. I remember when the atintic vho first hit and people realized the black light glow was possible, but nobody claimed it was natural back then.

 

[Lasse]

A bit o/t but it is regards to white leds and perception..or why some are generally a bad idea..

The color white and CRI/Ra - quinled.info

The color White If you want to use lighting in your house, white LEDs are basically the only way to go. RGB lights look cool, but for normal lighting at the place where you eat, read or cook, any other color then white isn’t going to work. Colored light can be used for accent lighting […]

quinled.info

Unless it is a camera/internet thing.. bottom left photo is high cri "daylight" white in my opinion.

The problem here is that - as I remember it - CRI/Ra is connected to the colours created by a black body radiator for sources with correlated color temperatures under 5000 K.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[oreo54]

Cri can be calculated using various standard illuminates.
Through no guarantee most 6500k or larger k temps should use D65.

. CIE standard illuminant D65 should be used in all colorimetric calculations requiring representative daylight, unless there are specific reasons for using a different illuminant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminant_D65.

Another problem is that the CRI is discontinuous at 5000 K,[27] because the chromaticity of the reference moves from the Planckian locus to the CIE daylight locus.

Other choices...

Standard illuminant - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Relative spectral power distribution of illuminant D and a black body of the same correlated color temperature, normalized about 560nm.

 

[oreo54]

CRI in the LED age is problematic but it does show if one " fills in" the spectrum gaps of white leds.

Visually it still represents color dullness though.

It is being replaced.Slowly ..

Will TM-30-15 Replace Color Rendering Index (CRI)?

Breaking news for the lighting world—last week, the Illuminating Engineering Society ( IES) published a technical memorandum outlining a new method for evaluating a light source’s ability to render color. The memorandum is meant to replace the Color Rendering Index ( CRI) and is currently known as T

www.linkedin.com

 

[muffinmanXL]

Issue I have is so many push the blue spectrum is natural lie to newbies that don't know any better. It wasn't until the advent of atintic vho that people first realized corals fluorescence in crazy neon colors was even possible. Then when leds cam out they found out heavy blue leds triggered a similar effect. That is why blue heavy id a thing, not corals preferences or health

So?