Hi everyone, I’m starting a frag tank basically just for mushrooms and I’m pretty sure this will work, but I just wanted to make sure. My plan is to buy in a bunch of live rubble rock at the bottom below the egg rate that will serve as a frag rack, but no sand. I’ll also have some filter media (like bio gems and filter floss in the back- it’s an AIO). I’ll also be using water from my main tank to start. Will this instantly be a suitable habitat or will I still have to wait? TIA for any feedback
Is this a good way to quickly cycle a tank?
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Theoretically, it should work and not go into a cycle but I would still leave it running for a few days with nothing else in and see if it goes into a mini cycle
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Hurricane Aquatics
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Depends on the maturity of the rock and how much. Using water from an established system will do absolutely nothing for the cycle. I would use fresh saltwater. A bottle of Fritz Turbo start wouldn't hurt either along with ceramic media in the back chamber, a lot of it.
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Uzidaisies
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I would replace the filter media with new in the main tank and move it to the frag tank. Clean water, and anything else with surface area, rocks and rubble and such from my establish system that I can move, or replace. Bottle of bacteria for good measure, and some clean up crew and food to feed the cycle.
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Corrections to reef water not containing bacteria, it contains millions of cells at all times: the tank water will cycle the tank in under 20 days it has millions of transmissible cycling bacteria. the place you saw on video that says it doesn’t is a video from a lineage of bottle bac sales, we click buy if we perceive a deficit
and then any place we read about reef water not having bacteria to share came off web posts where they just make things up and pass it on to friends, I have links where we cycle complete dry reefs in under a month using only reef water from a ready tank, no bottle bac no additional feed. water only, and contact time.
the reason 100% of reef tank's water has helpful, significant degrees of cycling bac is because of the water shear we all create and the sloughs that come off all day long that you can see clearly on a microscope when you scan anyone's reef water.
riding on those rafts are: cycling bac, by the millions.
The approach the op listed will skip cycle 100%. so it was 20 days ago/how'd it turn out?
and then any place we read about reef water not having bacteria to share came off web posts where they just make things up and pass it on to friends, I have links where we cycle complete dry reefs in under a month using only reef water from a ready tank, no bottle bac no additional feed. water only, and contact time.
the reason 100% of reef tank's water has helpful, significant degrees of cycling bac is because of the water shear we all create and the sloughs that come off all day long that you can see clearly on a microscope when you scan anyone's reef water.
riding on those rafts are: cycling bac, by the millions.
The approach the op listed will skip cycle 100%. so it was 20 days ago/how'd it turn out?
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Hurricane Aquatics
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Wonder why they don't sell "tank cycling water, just add and cycle done!"
Because water column bacteria and concrete bacteria are different. Water column WILL NOT cycle a tank.
But don't tell any of the major bacteria makers, they might contact Brandon for another 2 pages of posting to himself advice.
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do u want to see the thread example
www.reef2reef.com
that link needs to be given to the macna video that specifically says reef water doesn't have cycling bac. it for sure 100% does.
I make the case here that bottle bac salespersons are no longer allowed to make the cycling rules, because they always lead to a purchase, every. single. time.
also along these lines of rules they made up: try and link one example from any place on the internet where a bottle bac cycle failed, and the initial animals died. Try and search one, post it from 2008 or any other year, just one example lets see how recent it is and we can look for maybe one more to prove a pattern, that the first guy didn't just fail to acclimate or poison his tank in some way.
So we read (from bottle bac salespersons/key repeating detail) that cycles can fail or stall. On that continuum, a stall will kill new animals, so let's see one or two examples.
They dont exist, because cycles don't stall. we have been given training that always leads to a retail purchase. there are no failed cycles I've ever seen other than common as day api .25 ones. there are zero stalled bottle bac cycles on seneye for display tank reefs
post em if we can find one or two Ill update a thread we were looking for such examples.
Connecting Established Reef To New Tank
EDIT: In conclusion, if using the method I did - connecting an established reef to a new system with dry rock (clean), I recommend the following: 1. Dose your new tank prior to connecting to your old tank with NO3 and PO4 enough to raise to your established tank levels. 2. Take your skimmer...
www.reef2reef.com
that link needs to be given to the macna video that specifically says reef water doesn't have cycling bac. it for sure 100% does.
I make the case here that bottle bac salespersons are no longer allowed to make the cycling rules, because they always lead to a purchase, every. single. time.
also along these lines of rules they made up: try and link one example from any place on the internet where a bottle bac cycle failed, and the initial animals died. Try and search one, post it from 2008 or any other year, just one example lets see how recent it is and we can look for maybe one more to prove a pattern, that the first guy didn't just fail to acclimate or poison his tank in some way.
So we read (from bottle bac salespersons/key repeating detail) that cycles can fail or stall. On that continuum, a stall will kill new animals, so let's see one or two examples.
They dont exist, because cycles don't stall. we have been given training that always leads to a retail purchase. there are no failed cycles I've ever seen other than common as day api .25 ones. there are zero stalled bottle bac cycles on seneye for display tank reefs
post em if we can find one or two Ill update a thread we were looking for such examples.
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do u want to see another one, or is that one enough
link your source for claims that reef water has zero helpful cycling bac, let's see where it came from
link your source for claims that reef water has zero helpful cycling bac, let's see where it came from
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so, as was said, the OP's plan is fool proof. there aren't any stalled cycles we can find anyway, and he was adding both surface area and actual cycling bacteria from two different sources. easy skip cycle.
also Hurricane, link your one or two failed cycle proofs lets see any fail you've ever seen in reefing.
don't skip or gloss over that request, its important to see the consequence you're alluding to.
also Hurricane, link your one or two failed cycle proofs lets see any fail you've ever seen in reefing.
don't skip or gloss over that request, its important to see the consequence you're alluding to.
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Hurricane Aquatics
Valuable Member
I wasn't even going to bother because common sense and you don't belong in the same sentence.do u want to see the thread example
Connecting Established Reef To New Tank
EDIT: In conclusion, if using the method I did - connecting an established reef to a new system with dry rock (clean), I recommend the following: 1. Dose your new tank prior to connecting to your old tank with NO3 and PO4 enough to raise to your established tank levels. 2. Take your skimmer...
that link needs to be given to the macna video that specifically says reef water doesn't have cycling bac. it for sure 100% does.
I make the case here that bottle bac salespersons are no longer allowed to make the cycling rules, because they always lead to a purchase, every. single. time.
also along these lines of rules they made up: try and link one example from any place on the internet where a bottle bac cycle failed, and the initial animals died. Try and search one, post it from 2008 or any other year, just one example lets see how recent it is and we can look for maybe one more to prove a pattern, that the first guy didn't just fail to acclimate or poison his tank in some way.
So we read (from bottle bac salespersons/key repeating detail) that cycles can fail or stall. On that continuum, a stall will kill new animals, so let's see one or two examples.
They dont exist, because cycles don't stall. we have been given training that always leads to a retail purchase. there are no failed cycles I've ever seen other than common as day api .25 ones. there are zero stalled bottle bac cycles on seneye for display tank reefs
post em if we can find one or two Ill update a thread we were looking for such examples.
So let me get this straight, someone connected a large established system to a new system that had uncycled rock and new sand, etc?
You honestly think that is like having two separate systems, one established and one brand new, and adding used water to new tank for cycling? NOT!
The guy connected an established system to a new system. The established system SEEDED the new system and continued to do so because they are ONE SYSTEM essentially.
Good lord, please don't respond.........
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I see you won't be posting any direct examples requested of you, and you wont validate a work thread we put weeks of effort into. thats new, I've never seen that mode before in online disagreements.
The reason the discussion is important is so that groupthinkers don't train new reefers to always, always, always, always doubt and buy water bacteria in water.
in considering updated cycling rules we gain the ability to do reef moves well beyond this request, such as relocate tanks without loss, or run upgrades all day long for six years without loss etc. (and without bottle bac)
or make skip cycle setups, or move huge reefs to conventions and back without losing a hundred grand in bounce shrooms, or cycle huge setups by merely connecting one dry reef to share water with an active reef.
asking angry skeptics for proof of failed cycles is the best way because they really want to burn the person who doubted.
If we can find just one example, even where they may not have acclimated correctly, I'd consider adding that to our search thread for failed cycles. can you literally find anything clickable, even if a stretch, for a failed cycle?
if not don't feel bad, neither can I
have been searching for two/pattern for years. that's how I stumbled upon the fact that bottle bac sellers were making very very beneficial rules for cycling and then online peers do the major sales footwork, without fact checking any of it.
The reason the discussion is important is so that groupthinkers don't train new reefers to always, always, always, always doubt and buy water bacteria in water.
in considering updated cycling rules we gain the ability to do reef moves well beyond this request, such as relocate tanks without loss, or run upgrades all day long for six years without loss etc. (and without bottle bac)
or make skip cycle setups, or move huge reefs to conventions and back without losing a hundred grand in bounce shrooms, or cycle huge setups by merely connecting one dry reef to share water with an active reef.
asking angry skeptics for proof of failed cycles is the best way because they really want to burn the person who doubted.
If we can find just one example, even where they may not have acclimated correctly, I'd consider adding that to our search thread for failed cycles. can you literally find anything clickable, even if a stretch, for a failed cycle?
if not don't feel bad, neither can I
have been searching for two/pattern for years. that's how I stumbled upon the fact that bottle bac sellers were making very very beneficial rules for cycling and then online peers do the major sales footwork, without fact checking any of it.
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Hurricane Aquatics
Valuable Member
So you're not going to deny what I said? You put weeks of effort into something I told you in 30 seconds ROFL....my lord.....that says it all about what you know.
I'm not the one on here bashing bottled bacteria and posting PAGES of incoherent nonsense.
Post your education on these subjects. Marine Biology degree? You always post "We've been trained" yea? Who trained you and why don't you have a large established business like ones we see on Reef2Reef?
I'm not the one on here bashing bottled bacteria and posting PAGES of incoherent nonsense.
Post your education on these subjects. Marine Biology degree? You always post "We've been trained" yea? Who trained you and why don't you have a large established business like ones we see on Reef2Reef?
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I will list that along with my employment, which you'll be able to pick incessantly at, if you merely post one or two examples of a failed bottle bac cycle.
but if you can't gimme those links, then we're left with your same standard of input as the last time we crossed paths on cycles.
but if you can't gimme those links, then we're left with your same standard of input as the last time we crossed paths on cycles.
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Hurricane Aquatics
Valuable Member
Lol.......yea that's what I thought. You have a good evening.
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I never could understand how after posting a link that directly shows what I’d summarized on my opening post we continue to debate the mechanism; having no links seems more suspicious for claims.
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Gaki
www.reef2reef.com
that's where your plan analysis came from/ we've been managing skip cycles a while now there/collecting examples.
the only difference between you and them is they were using pounds of live rock/ surface area well beyond their needs, and yours will be only rubble vs stacks of pre cycled rocks.
it may interest you to know, your tank will still carry the same degree of fish theirs carries
Spread out rubble has the same collective water contact abilities as a stack of live rocks, its a dimension trick on the eye but you still aren't lacking surface area nor contact placement.
I bet we did all this battle and the op didnt even set up the tank lol
if you did Gaki we'd like to see those pics. now u have a roadmap to plan if you ever do want to implement that plan.
also, if your cable goes out in your house, I can help
lol
whats more important than what I do for 8 hours a day is having links that directly apply to given reef tank jobs so that reasonable outcome prediction can be had.
A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac
THE GOLDEN EXAMPLE OF A SKIP CYCLE DAY 1 REEF https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/octo-high-end-sps-skip-cycle-build.713256/ read that entire thread before you read ours. that's the heart of skip cycling. Everything we do going forward in this thread reflects on that ability above, in the #1...
www.reef2reef.com
that's where your plan analysis came from/ we've been managing skip cycles a while now there/collecting examples.
the only difference between you and them is they were using pounds of live rock/ surface area well beyond their needs, and yours will be only rubble vs stacks of pre cycled rocks.
it may interest you to know, your tank will still carry the same degree of fish theirs carries
Spread out rubble has the same collective water contact abilities as a stack of live rocks, its a dimension trick on the eye but you still aren't lacking surface area nor contact placement.
I bet we did all this battle and the op didnt even set up the tank lol
if you did Gaki we'd like to see those pics. now u have a roadmap to plan if you ever do want to implement that plan.
also, if your cable goes out in your house, I can help
lolwhats more important than what I do for 8 hours a day is having links that directly apply to given reef tank jobs so that reasonable outcome prediction can be had.
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If you have real live rock that has surface and anoxic bacteria on/in it and is also mostly phosphate free, then this could work, but you are working a balancing act - established rock rubble. That rock came from a system where the bacteria populations were in equilibrium and now are going to be in an environment where they are not at first. They can pretty quickly multiply and adapt, but this is where the balancing act comes in... you need to not add too much food so that ammonia does not not rise, but you need some so that the corals can get some nitrogen - your mushrooms will need to get nitrogen from ammonia/ammonium and not feeding fish or some inverts to produce it will slow some growth. ...so some food, but certainly not too much. In the end, your plan will speed things up, but I would not consider it instant... but also mushrooms are quite hardy and might not care at all. You can also always change water out of your other tank into this one if you need to... and/or move the mushrooms to the other tank in an emergency. The risk is low if you are smart, IMO, but there still is some.
On this place, be careful who you listen to. There are many who have actual experience in a wide breath and depth of the hobby and can demonstrate. There are others who reef on the backs of others, post links and think that a small experience can scale to other places when it often does not. Choose well.
On this place, be careful who you listen to. There are many who have actual experience in a wide breath and depth of the hobby and can demonstrate. There are others who reef on the backs of others, post links and think that a small experience can scale to other places when it often does not. Choose well.
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ariellemermaid
Well-Known Member
My R2R life is so much more peaceful after I blocked him a while back. Peddling nonsense is one thing, but to do it with so much arrogance and hostility is just beyond tolerable. (Disclaimer- as he is blocked I have not seen anything posted here, I just know his MO). I personally think he may be struggling with autism spectrum or bipolar, so keep that in mind when arguing or putting on blast. Better to just ignore and move on.
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