Is this a unique cycle situation? Newbie help flare

[lukefish]

Newbie in the Reef2Reef house!

Current set up: Fluval EVO 52l
Live Rock 6kg
Live sand 4 kg

Clean up crew:
1 emerald crab
2 hermit crabs
1 cowrie snail
1 narsuss snail

Fish - 0

Tank set up on 18th March 2021

Now lets cut to the chase. The LFS insisted that I get the clean up crew described above-I thought it was bit much to begin with, but they said it was necessary.

I've been using the Marine Labs test kit to test for ammonia, nitrite nitrate and the pH. Testing almost daily. I also have been using Microbe-Lift Special blend - 20ml a day for the first week.

On day 2 of starting the cycle these were my parameters:

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
pH 8
Salinity - didn’t take a reading

on day 5 these were my parameters

ammonia 0.2
Nitrite 0.5
Nitrate 20
pH 8.2
Salinity 35ppt

on day 7 I added 60ml of Dr Tim’s one and only and continued with the daily 20ml of the Microbe-lift special blend too

these are my current parameters on day 10:

ammonia 0.5
nitrite 8
nitrate 80
pH 8
salinity 36

My question is: is my tank cycling correctly?

if not, what can I do to correct my parameters?

thanks so much in advance. if there is a thread you can link me to, I’ll also have a read of that. But I think my dr Tim’s and my microbe combo has messed up my water already!!!

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Welcome to the forum. Just keep testing, the nitrate will go to zero as the nitrite rises, then nitrate will start going to zero and nitrate will raise. Only time cycles a tank. I would suggest to do water change to bring the nitrite down so that it completes the cycle faster.

Feed some pellets to the tank daily so the clean up crew has something to eat, if they are still alive. You should have followed your hunch not trust the LFS, it was too soon.

 

[lukefish]

Thanks for your advice! Is it worth adding more of the microbe special blend? I’ve also heard ATM Colony marine is good. Or would this not make a difference?

 

[Azedenkae]

My question is: is my tank cycling correctly?

Not trying to be condescending or anything, just want to see what you have been told so far to best answer your question. What do you perceive cycling involves?

 

[Deep]

Sorry if I dont get this, but what is the source of ammonia for this cycle?

 

[lukefish]

I understand it to mean creating an eco system by ensuring there is a bacteria colony in it that removes toxic waste to ensure your aquatic life has a healthy environment to thrive in

 

[lukefish]

Sorry if I dont get this, but what is the source of ammonia for this cycle?

Are you asking why my ammonia is so high at the moment and where is it coming from?

If I had to hazard a newbie guess, it’s from the microbe-lift special blend/dr tims, the waste from the clean up crew, the decomposing body of one of the snails and also the half algae pellet I feed the clean up crew every other day. Some of the food doesn’t get eaten so I’ve been trying to remove it after 24 hours of being in the tank.

 

[lukefish]

I understand it to mean creating an eco system by ensuring there is a bacteria colony in it that removes toxic waste to ensure your aquatic life has a healthy environment to thrive in

I guess my question is not whether the tank is cycling properly, but, is it normal to have these water parameters into a 10 day cycle? If not, what can I do to correct it? If it is normal, then I’ll keep doing more of the same

 

[Azedenkae]

I understand it to mean creating an eco system by ensuring there is a bacteria colony in it that removes toxic waste to ensure your aquatic life has a healthy environment to thrive in

Okay cool, awesome. So yeah, beneficial microbes have a broad definition, and there are numerous schools of thought when it comes to cycling, but I will describe my school, which broadly has the same goal as what your vision is.

To me, the point of cycling is to develop enough nitrifiers to handle ammonia and nitrite (the latter long term). To do this however, you need to get them to grow, and to get them to grow, you actually need to introduce an ammonia source for the ammonia oxidizers to utilize as an energy source.

So it is the reverse of what is going on. The ammonia produced here is from the activity of your cuc most likely, and because there is not enough ammonia oxidizers yet (the ones you introduce with your bottled bacteria products), ammonia has been rising and just keep on rising.

Depending on the 'quality' of live rock and live sand you buy, sometimes it carries enough nitrifiers already and your tank is 'insta-cycled'. But does not seem to be the case here.

What will happen if left unchecked, is the ammonia can climb high enough to kill your cuc. Personally I would never suggest any sort of animal while cycling, be it fish or cuc or whatever.

But anyways, it happened, so we move on.

Here is a good article on what I view cycling to be: https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/fishless-cycling/

I think there are things I do not agree 100% with it, but nonetheless it is a great guide to cycling.

As for what I think you should do now? Personally I think you should return the cuc, and cycle using bottled ammonia. Get ammonia to 2ppm, and follow the cycling instructions as in the article. Someone else probably has some other suggestion.

 

[brandon429]

in my opinion the cycle is already done. Live rock possibly boosted, need defining on where it came from in the store (shelf vs wet live rock tank) but the bottle bac is generating params appropriate for the days underwater

it’s costly stuff...concentrated bac. How the wastewater tests isn’t as big of a deal, just change the water out and what’s left will be cycled due to additions + time underwater. the clean up crew really did help import cycling bac it was stuck all over them

agreed with lfs on that sale.


Do a large water change

you need to choose a fish disease protocol
your goal is to keep params in line now, to keep the bioload happy, we wouldn’t spike your ammonia. It’s a contact duration cycle



the instant you add a fish, since you’ve bought and installed cycling concentrates, you’ve selected out of one form of disease control and into another.


fish disease is your challenge, not free ammonia control. You paid for this faster wait time, legit.



post pics when you have some life in the tank. If you select fallow, quarantine then you get to pack your tank in cool corals, feed them well, be full on reefing, then implement fallow phase. It’s a good way to run fish disease care because it allows the reef the be full on coral action, loaded before you lock everything clean with the fallow run.

then add qt fish, certain websites already sell them, perfection. If you feed the fish top quality food + water changes before it ever goes stale, you will have a strong reef. That live rock pre cured is very good for the system if it was wet at the fish store

but if it was dry rock the bottle bac have already taken. am only relaying timeframes studied by Dr Reefs bottle bac thread

 

[lukefish]

Okay cool, awesome. So yeah, beneficial microbes have a broad definition, and there are numerous schools of thought when it comes to cycling, but I will describe my school, which broadly has the same goal as what your vision is.

To me, the point of cycling is to develop enough nitrifiers to handle ammonia and nitrite (the latter long term). To do this however, you need to get them to grow, and to get them to grow, you actually need to introduce an ammonia source for the ammonia oxidizers to utilize as an energy source.

So it is the reverse of what is going on. The ammonia produced here is from the activity of your cuc most likely, and because there is not enough ammonia oxidizers yet (the ones you introduce with your bottled bacteria products), ammonia has been rising and just keep on rising.

Depending on the 'quality' of live rock and live sand you buy, sometimes it carries enough nitrifiers already and your tank is 'insta-cycled'. But does not seem to be the case here.

What will happen if left unchecked, is the ammonia can climb high enough to kill your cuc. Personally I would never suggest any sort of animal while cycling, be it fish or cuc or whatever.

But anyways, it happened, so we move on.

Here is a good article on what I view cycling to be: https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/fishless-cycling/

I think there are things I do not agree 100% with it, but nonetheless it is a great guide to cycling.

As for what I think you should do now? Personally I think you should return the cuc, and cycle using bottled ammonia. Get ammonia to 2ppm, and follow the cycling instructions as in the article. Someone else probably has some other suggestion.

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply and in such detail. I’ll have a read of the article

 

[Azedenkae]

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply and in such detail. I’ll have a read of the article

You're welcome. ^_^

 

[lukefish]

in my opinion the cycle is already done. Live rock possibly boosted, need defining on where it came from in the store (shelf vs wet live rock tank) but the bottle bac is generating params appropriate for the days underwater

it’s costly stuff...concentrated bac. How the wastewater tests isn’t as big of a deal, just change the water out and what’s left will be cycled due to additions + time underwater. the clean up crew really did help import cycling bac it was stuck all over them

agreed with lfs on that sale.


Do a large water change

you need to choose a fish disease protocol
your goal is to keep params in line now, to keep the bioload happy, we wouldn’t spike your ammonia. It’s a contact duration cycle



the instant you add a fish, since you’ve bought and installed cycling concentrates, you’ve selected out of one form of disease control and into another.


fish disease is your challenge, not free ammonia control. You paid for this faster wait time, legit.



post pics when you have some life in the tank. If you select fallow, quarantine then you get to pack your tank in cool corals, feed them well, be full on reefing, then implement fallow phase. It’s a good way to run fish disease care because it allows the reef the be full on coral action, loaded before you lock everything clean with the fallow run.

then add qt fish, certain websites already sell them, perfection. If you feed the fish top quality food + water changes before it ever goes stale, you will have a strong reef. That live rock pre cured is very good for the system if it was wet at the fish store

but if it was dry rock the bottle bac have already taken. am only relaying timeframes studied by Dr Reefs bottle bac thread

Hey! I think you’re right about the cycle. Though I’d say I was about half way through. Not sure why it’s taking longer than others I’ve read about ... but hey... it’s a marathon not a sprint. Im going to be patient.
I’ve just done a 50% water change and tested the parameters again.
The results are in:

ammonia 0.2
Nitrite 2
Nitrate 40
pH 8.3
Salinity 34ppt

I’m hoping a few more water changes over the coming days will help...

 

[lukefish]

here’s a pic of the tank as it is. I absolutely love the shape of the live rock. So many tiny arches and tunnels.
I’m still figuring out the best position for the power head. At the moment it’s in a position that doesn’t disrupt the sand bed but it may need to move when the coral eventually goes in.
Now I realise I’m just talking to myself and no one asked ... but I’m so happy with my new tank that I could talk all day about it

 

[bherbold8]

Newbie in the Reef2Reef house!

Current set up: Fluval EVO 52l
Live Rock 6kg
Live sand 4 kg

Clean up crew:
1 emerald crab
2 hermit crabs
1 cowrie snail
1 narsuss snail

Fish - 0

Tank set up on 18th March 2021

Now lets cut to the chase. The LFS insisted that I get the clean up crew described above-I thought it was bit much to begin with, but they said it was necessary.

I've been using the Marine Labs test kit to test for ammonia, nitrite nitrate and the pH. Testing almost daily. I also have been using Microbe-Lift Special blend - 20ml a day for the first week.

On day 2 of starting the cycle these were my parameters:

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
pH 8
Salinity - didn’t take a reading

on day 5 these were my parameters

ammonia 0.2
Nitrite 0.5
Nitrate 20
pH 8.2
Salinity 35ppt

on day 7 I added 60ml of Dr Tim’s one and only and continued with the daily 20ml of the Microbe-lift special blend too

these are my current parameters on day 10:

ammonia 0.5
nitrite 8
nitrate 80
pH 8
salinity 36

My question is: is my tank cycling correctly?

if not, what can I do to correct my parameters?

thanks so much in advance. if there is a thread you can link me to, I’ll also have a read of that. But I think my dr Tim’s and my microbe combo has messed up my water already!!!

You already have the CUC in there? Doesn't look like you're done cycling. IMO you shouldn't be adding CUC until you see your first signs of algae growth

 

[reefinatl]

here’s a pic of the tank as it is. I absolutely love the shape of the live rock. So many tiny arches and tunnels.
I’m still figuring out the best position for the power head. At the moment it’s in a position that doesn’t disrupt the sand bed but it may need to move when the coral eventually goes in.
Now I realise I’m just talking to myself and no one asked ... but I’m so happy with my new tank that I could talk all day about it

Looks great, I would start figuring out your fish plans and get them in QT around now. Ammonia tests are sometimes hard to read, if you get to zero on your Nitrite you are more than likely all set to go, even if you show slightly above zero on ammonia.

Cycle is taking longer because you are doing a real cycle with live rock. There tends to be some die off. It is fine, and the way things were done for a very long time. It will potentially save you some headaches that come with bone white dry rock.

As a side note, no matter what your LFS tells you I'd bet a substantial amount of money they do not actually quarantine.

 

[reefinatl]

You already have the CUC in there? Doesn't look like you're done cycling. IMO you shouldn't be adding CUC until you see your first signs of algae growth

With actual live rock there should be enough to keep that small crew going and the worst of the ammonia is behind him.

 

[lukefish]

You already have the CUC in there? Doesn't look like you're done cycling. IMO you shouldn't be adding CUC until you see your first signs of algae growth

I agree... now. The LFS insisted that I needed them. I now understand that it was a little premature.
I’m doing my best to keep the water in check for them. Poor little things. I will have to take them back if the tank doesn’t cycle soon

 

[bherbold8]

in my opinion the cycle is already done. Live rock possibly boosted, need defining on where it came from in the store (shelf vs wet live rock tank) but the bottle bac is generating params appropriate for the days underwater

it’s costly stuff...concentrated bac. How the wastewater tests isn’t as big of a deal, just change the water out and what’s left will be cycled due to additions + time underwater. the clean up crew really did help import cycling bac it was stuck all over them

agreed with lfs on that sale.


Do a large water change

you need to choose a fish disease protocol
your goal is to keep params in line now, to keep the bioload happy, we wouldn’t spike your ammonia. It’s a contact duration cycle



the instant you add a fish, since you’ve bought and installed cycling concentrates, you’ve selected out of one form of disease control and into another.


fish disease is your challenge, not free ammonia control. You paid for this faster wait time, legit.



post pics when you have some life in the tank. If you select fallow, quarantine then you get to pack your tank in cool corals, feed them well, be full on reefing, then implement fallow phase. It’s a good way to run fish disease care because it allows the reef the be full on coral action, loaded before you lock everything clean with the fallow run.

then add qt fish, certain websites already sell them, perfection. If you feed the fish top quality food + water changes before it ever goes stale, you will have a strong reef. That live rock pre cured is very good for the system if it was wet at the fish store

but if it was dry rock the bottle bac have already taken. am only relaying timeframes studied by Dr Reefs bottle bac thread

Nitrite 8ppm and nitrate at 80ppm and you think they cycle is done?

 

[lukefish]

With actual live rock there should be enough to keep that small crew going and the worst of the ammonia is behind him.

Everything seems to be moving in the right direction. Thanks for the comment and support

look how cute this little one is! I gotta save him!