Is this Ich, Velvet?

Thomas Jedlicka

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Hey all,

I have been battling whatever this is for a couple months and my fish are eating and active but randomly losing a fish every once in a while. this is the worst its been and I have been treating with metroplex for two weeks now. I am considering dosing copper to my system to rid whatever this is. I was planning to do reef in this system, if i dose copper is there any way to pull it out later and still do reef. the fish dont seem to me like they have velvet as they would be dying as a collective much faster. I think this all stemmed from a water change i did a couple months back where the temp difference was too much. here are some videos under white light. any advice is appreciated.

https://youtube.com/shorts/SkQodJ4x8zI?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/h3fip_-WHwE?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/pj1CrFDrwg4?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/MQN7BO9c6rA?feature=share
 

vetteguy53081

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Hey all,

I have been battling whatever this is for a couple months and my fish are eating and active but randomly losing a fish every once in a while. this is the worst its been and I have been treating with metroplex for two weeks now. I am considering dosing copper to my system to rid whatever this is. I was planning to do reef in this system, if i dose copper is there any way to pull it out later and still do reef. the fish dont seem to me like they have velvet as they would be dying as a collective much faster. I think this all stemmed from a water change i did a couple months back where the temp difference was too much. here are some videos under white light. any advice is appreciated.

https://youtube.com/shorts/SkQodJ4x8zI?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/h3fip_-WHwE?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/pj1CrFDrwg4?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/MQN7BO9c6rA?feature=share
Appears to be velvet. Quarantine tank obviously will be needed UNLESS this is a FOWLER (Fish Only Tank)
With ich, you can generally count the dots whereas with velvet, it represents the solar system as in the case of your tang. velvet spots on the fish that are much finer than the spots seen in Ich making it harder to catch until in cases too late to treat.
Some behaviors associated with a fish with velvet are :
- Scratching body against hard objects
- Fish is lethargic
- Loss of appetite and weight loss
- Rapid, labored breathing
- Fins clamped against the body
- rapid breathing and mucus around the gills

Fish with velvet will typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium. As the disease progresses outwards from the gills, the cysts then become visible on the fins and body. Although these cysts may appear as tiny white dots the size of a grain of salt, like the first sign of Saltwater Ich or White Spot Disease, what sets Oodinium apart from other types of ich is that at this point the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan to golden colored, velvet-like film, thus the name Velvet Disease.
Remove fish from main tank and give them a FW dip or bath and then place them into a QT with vigorous aeration provided. Treat the fish in the QT with a copper-based medication. Although many over-the-counter remedies contain the general name as ich or ick treatments, carefully read the box to be sure it is specifically designed to target Oodinium. My choice is coppersafe at 2.25-2.5 therapuetic level at 80 degrees monitored by a reliable test kit (no api brand either)
 

Jay Hemdal

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Hey all,

I have been battling whatever this is for a couple months and my fish are eating and active but randomly losing a fish every once in a while. this is the worst its been and I have been treating with metroplex for two weeks now. I am considering dosing copper to my system to rid whatever this is. I was planning to do reef in this system, if i dose copper is there any way to pull it out later and still do reef. the fish dont seem to me like they have velvet as they would be dying as a collective much faster. I think this all stemmed from a water change i did a couple months back where the temp difference was too much. here are some videos under white light. any advice is appreciated.

https://youtube.com/shorts/SkQodJ4x8zI?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/h3fip_-WHwE?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/pj1CrFDrwg4?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/MQN7BO9c6rA?feature=share
I’m not seeing velvet - I’m thinking Neobenedenia flukes, but I can’t rule out long term ich in the puffer.
What about hyposalinity? That works great on Neo, pretty well on ich, but doesn’t work on velvet at all.
Jay
 
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Thomas Jedlicka

Thomas Jedlicka

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I don't have a QT, and is something I am not able to do. It is a FOWLR with no inverts or coral. I could try hypo, but would it be easier to control to do prazi or something like that? the fish don't necessarily act like they have velvet apart from the fast breathing. The purple tang looks as if it could be velvet, but the fish are holding in really well. They don't look visually well; they still eat like there is no tomorrow and stay active. My puffers are lazy and shy and like to hide and lay around like that.

Should I try copper safe, should I try hypo, or should I do both? The fish I have been pretty tough for the most part and I wouldn't be opposed to dosing the system. If I do hypo what target salinity would I look for?
 
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Thomas Jedlicka

Thomas Jedlicka

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I’m not seeing velvet - I’m thinking Neobenedenia flukes, but I can’t rule out long term ich in the puffer.
What about hyposalinity? That works great on Neo, pretty well on ich, but doesn’t work on velvet at all.
Jay
My tank is professionally cleaned while I am away for college. I went downstairs to my filtration room to find my chiller unplugged and tank running at 85°. i am slowly lowering the tenp back down to 77 over the next day or so. I assume this temp made it impossible for fish to fight the disease on their own. I will lower and see if there are any differences and either treat copper or hypo. it looks to me like ich or velvet and less like flukes. however i think the fish would be dead already if it was velvet. so i will update once temo drops i think the immune system of the fish will be better equipped ti handle the disease at a lower temp but you guys have other ideas or thoughts let me know.
 

Jay Hemdal

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I don't have a QT, and is something I am not able to do. It is a FOWLR with no inverts or coral. I could try hypo, but would it be easier to control to do prazi or something like that? the fish don't necessarily act like they have velvet apart from the fast breathing. The purple tang looks as if it could be velvet, but the fish are holding in really well. They don't look visually well; they still eat like there is no tomorrow and stay active. My puffers are lazy and shy and like to hide and lay around like that.

Should I try copper safe, should I try hypo, or should I do both? The fish I have been pretty tough for the most part and I wouldn't be opposed to dosing the system. If I do hypo what target salinity would I look for?
Coppersafe won’t help for flukes. Prazi will, but it is tough to break the life cycle if it is an egg laying fluke like Neo. Coppersafe is tough to dose in tanks with lots of sand and rocks.
If the fish have have been dying of the same issue over weeks/months then this isn’t velvet.
Hyposalinity at a specific gravity of 1.012 for 35 days will control Neo. 1.009 SG for 30 days will control Neo and ich.

Jay
 

Jay Hemdal

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My tank is professionally cleaned while I am away for college. I went downstairs to my filtration room to find my chiller unplugged and tank running at 85°. i am slowly lowering the tenp back down to 77 over the next day or so. I assume this temp made it impossible for fish to fight the disease on their own. I will lower and see if there are any differences and either treat copper or hypo. it looks to me like ich or velvet and less like flukes. however i think the fish would be dead already if it was velvet. so i will update once temo drops i think the immune system of the fish will be better equipped ti handle the disease at a lower temp but you guys have other ideas or thoughts let me know.
Yes, 77 is a much better temp!
Jay
 
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Thomas Jedlicka

Thomas Jedlicka

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Coppersafe won’t help for flukes. Prazi will, but it is tough to break the life cycle if it is an egg laying fluke like Neo. Coppersafe is tough to dose in tanks with lots of sand and rocks.
If the fish have have been dying of the same issue over weeks/months then this isn’t velvet.
Hyposalinity at a specific gravity of 1.012 for 35 days will control Neo. 1.009 SG for 30 days will control Neo and ich.

Jay
how many days should i take to gradually lower to 1.009
 

Jay Hemdal

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how many days should i take to gradually lower to 1.009
There is no set rule, but I generally take three days to drop it in 2 steps per day….6 equal steps all told. Going back up needs to be done much slower, at least 5 days with 2 or 3 steps per day.
Jay
 
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