Is this ICH?

jeremyg

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Exactly 2 weeks into quarantine of these new fish I got from LiveAquaria. Been doing 50% water changes every 2-3 days. Had a Cardinalfish disappear (only to be found dead after tearing apart the tank). Netted the remaining 2 Cardinalfish and French Angelfish and moved them to a small bowl while doing a thorough cleaning and 100% water change.

Here’s a picture of the Angelfish, with some kind of white marks. Not sure what it is. The Cardinalfish (both dead and alive have no visible spots. All fish still have hearty appetites.

BBBA3E93-59EB-47F4-BADE-9A64FCD542F0.jpeg
 
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Exactly 2 weeks into quarantine of these new fish I got from LiveAquaria. Been doing 50% water changes every 2-3 days. Had a Cardinalfish disappear (only to be found dead after tearing apart the tank). Netted the remaining 2 Cardinalfish and French Angelfish and moved them to a small bowl while doing a thorough cleaning and 100% water change.

Here’s a picture of the Angelfish, with some kind of white marks. Not sure what it is. The Cardinalfish (both dead and alive have no visible spots. All fish still have hearty appetites.

BBBA3E93-59EB-47F4-BADE-9A64FCD542F0.jpeg
This fish has something bacterial and for quarantine treatment, you don’t want to change water unless ammonia elevated
Copper has to run a full 30 days at therapeutic level 2.5 and praziquantel 8 day interval, water change and one more 8 day interval
 
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jeremyg

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This fish has something bacterial and for quarantine treatment, you don’t want to change water unless ammonia elevated
Copper has to run a full 30 days at therapeutic level 2.5 and praziquantel 8 day interval, water change and one more 8 day interval
Thanks, I'm not using copper in QT. Was only planning to add if needed.

Is copper a treatment for something bacterial, or is that what the praziquantel is for?

Would this be the correct product to use?
1660143189117.png
 
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jeremyg

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Also presumably I'd want to keep the other Cardinalfish that are currently in the QT when dosing praziquantel, right? I should assume they are infected and treat accordingly?
 

Jay Hemdal

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Exactly 2 weeks into quarantine of these new fish I got from LiveAquaria. Been doing 50% water changes every 2-3 days. Had a Cardinalfish disappear (only to be found dead after tearing apart the tank). Netted the remaining 2 Cardinalfish and French Angelfish and moved them to a small bowl while doing a thorough cleaning and 100% water change.

Here’s a picture of the Angelfish, with some kind of white marks. Not sure what it is. The Cardinalfish (both dead and alive have no visible spots. All fish still have hearty appetites.

BBBA3E93-59EB-47F4-BADE-9A64FCD542F0.jpeg

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Can you post a short video of the angelfish?

I read that you did essentially a 100% water change. While that can be done, you need to take great care to see that the pH, temperature and salinity match up closely between the old water and new. Also, you need to mix up the seawater the day before, and aerate it well overnight.

Not dosing with coppersafe or copper power is almost always a mistake. Ich and velvet are the two most common marine fish diseases, and treating them after they develop is always a lot more difficult that preventing them.

That said, these marks could be a sign of skin flukes, or they could be abrasions from being netted/moved. Are the marks on both sides of the fish?

Jay
 
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jeremyg

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Here is a short video (taken from above the water, while in a small fish bowl during the water change):



Regarding the water, I have a 33 Gal brute which I used to mix salt water a couple days prior to water change. I use the same volume of water and same amount (by weight) of salt. I check salinity and temperature before doing water changes.

I ordered prazi which will arrive tomorrow. I have Cupramine on hand, but could get something else instead.

What treatments do you recommend at this point?
 
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jeremyg

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That said, these marks could be a sign of skin flukes, or they could be abrasions from being netted/moved. Are the marks on both sides of the fish?
Frankly, I didn't notice these marks until I netted it for this water change (first time in the net too - I used my hands to transfer it from the delivery to QT.

I've been looking at the fish closely each day for the last 2 weeks, mainly looking for spots/ICH and hadn't noticed it. That said, my QT tank is a clear rubbermaid 16gal container which doesn't offer the best clarity.

Could it be something as simple as the net irritating the skin? If so, how do I know and what do I do now?
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Here’s another video from a few minutes ago, back in the QT:

The angel is breathing a bit fast, and I see some head shaking. I can't see any ich spots (but since it is a video, they still could be there and just not seen). If it were my fish, I would treat with prazi and then copper.

FWIW: this fish's swimming pattern, and the clear edge to its caudal fin, reminds me more of a gray angel than a french.

Jay
 
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jeremyg

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The angel is breathing a bit fast, and I see some head shaking. I can't see any ich spots (but since it is a video, they still could be there and just not seen). If it were my fish, I would treat with prazi and then copper.

FWIW: this fish's swimming pattern, and the clear edge to its caudal fin, reminds me more of a gray angel than a french.

Jay
Thanks for the advice. I saw that head shake or two also. Prazi starting tomorrow when it’s delivered. What’s the procedure exactly? I’m sure it’s on this forum somewhere.

Regarding the type, I ordered a 4-5” adult French, and got what I believe is a 2” juvenile French. At least when compared to the pictures on LiveAquaria

French Angelfish:

1660164551336.png


Gray (Black) Angelfish:

1660164645790.png
 

Jay Hemdal

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Thanks for the advice. I saw that head shake or two also. Prazi starting tomorrow when it’s delivered. What’s the procedure exactly? I’m sure it’s on this forum somewhere.

Regarding the type, I ordered a 4-5” adult French, and got what I believe is a 2” juvenile French. At least when compared to the pictures on LiveAquaria

French Angelfish:

1660164551336.png


Gray (Black) Angelfish:

1660164645790.png

For Prazipro, you would dose the tank for its actual water volume and supply good aeration (usually through an air stone, circulating pumps may not do it). Then 8 days later, change 30% of the water and redose. You need to monitor the ammonia level during the process.

I'm pretty certain you have a gray angelfish. See the clear trailing edge of its caudal fin? That should be a yellow ring if it were a french. Also, baby french angels swim like little puppy dogs wagging their tails, and gray angel swim more in a straight line.

Jay
 
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jeremyg

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For Prazipro, you would dose the tank for its actual water volume and supply good aeration (usually through an air stone, circulating pumps may not do it). Then 8 days later, change 30% of the water and redose. You need to monitor the ammonia level during the process.

I'm pretty certain you have a gray angelfish. See the clear trailing edge of its caudal fin? That should be a yellow ring if it were a french. Also, baby french angels swim like little puppy dogs wagging their tails, and gray angel swim more in a straight line.

Jay
Ok I dosed the Parzipro

I wonder how long until we know for sure if it’s a French or Gray…
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Ok I dosed the Parzipro

I wonder how long until we know for sure if it’s a French or Gray…

I just try to not be too dogmatic, or sound like a know it all, so I say things like "I think...." but it's a gray angel.

Jay
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Do you happen to know how quickly Gray Angels grow, or what to expect? This one is rather small (2") right now.

Sorry, no - I don't have good data on that. In my experience, in the wild, they tend to lose their black coloration at around 4", and then turn more gray, with faded yellow stripes. Captive angels are often on a different schedule - I've seen French angels in mostly juvenile coloration up to around 6".

Jay
 
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