Is this urenoma on pyramid butterfly and anthias?

[Trueruby]

Hi Everyone,
I added Pyramid butterfly to my DT on 28th Of February. It died on 10th March.
My yellow and scoppas tang shower some agression towerd pyramid. Hence, I tought due to spine attack the butterfly died. See picture below.
also, on 5th March I have added 4 new anthias from LFS, no qt unfortunatelly. 2 of them died just in 2 days. And my male anthias which been in tank for 3 years died after a 30 days. There is only one anthias left from last addition and it also has kinda vertical scar on each side. Please see my male anthias picture also below.
meanwhile, I tought this could be urenoma, I found it mostly affects Chromis viridis. ı have 8 of them on DT and non of them did not yet hurt at all in 30 days.
P.S the male anthias was also getting pale on colour for lost month perhaps due to age.

 

[Derrick0580]

Yep, and now it’s forever in your tank unless you strip it down and bleach everything. You could try treating with metroplex but doesn’t always work.

 

[Trueruby]

Yep, and now it’s forever in your tank unless you strip it down and bleach everything. You could try treating with metroplex but doesn’t always work.

But, isn’t it interesting that chromis viridis didnt have any signs during 30 days?

 

[threebuoys]

Diagnosis after death and out of water is very difficult. While uronema is a possibility, other disease or parasites may have been introduced with the new fish . Uronema does not tend to be as contagious as other illnesses. But uronema does tend to infect some species, including anthias, more than others. Generally, you will see the infection on both sides of the fish and death happens rather quickly. Medication is useually ineffective.

very little you can do to eliminate uronema from the tank. Clean water and otherwise healthy fish of species less prone to the infection are your best bet.

My concern is the diagnosis might be something else even more contagious and that pathogen may remain in the tank. I wish you had pictures and video before the fish transpired. Did you notice other unexpected behavior or conditions? Hear breathing, slime, mucus, spots, lethargy, gulping for air, flashing?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The Pyramid doesn't have Uronema, could be tissue damage from Neobenedenia fluke, or damage from the tankmates. The Anthias could well have Uronema, the lesion does match.

Here is the thing - inter cellular Uronema is not very contagious, new fish arrive and die from it, it rarely, if ever spreads to other fish (think carefully about the 3 year old anthias, could something else have killed it? Did it have these red lesions?)

Uronema is commonly found in mature aquariums, they normally feed on bacteria. Nobody knows why they infect the insides of new fish though. It might be that the fish have a bacterial infection, and the Uronema feeds on those, but just doesn't know when to stop, and keep right on going into the fish.

In the end, I think there are multiple issues here, but none may be active at the moment. I would not add any fish for now, wait to see if any of the remaining fish develop treatable symptoms, and then, quarantine new fish going forward.

Here is my article on Uronema:

Uronema / Red Band Disease - Hemdal

Red Band Syndrome in Marine Fishes: Caused by the Protozoan; Uronema sp. Jay Hemdal Introduction: This moderately common disease of certain species of marine fish is so often misdiagnosed that most aquarists apply incorrect treatment methods...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

But, isn’t it interesting that chromis viridis didnt have any signs during 30 days?

I see the anthias as Injury and butterfly as bacterial or flukes. Uronema is a ciliated parasite and fish with large scales that are loosely placed can get it. Generally the onset can be from as simple as a drop in salinity. Quarantine is best prevention with this disease and best recourse would be to treat with Ruby Rally Pro- Not formalin which is suggested which can burn the area should there be any ciliated parasites.
Seachem kanaplex should also work.
As for fallow, have the tank fishless 45-60 days and assure salinity is maintained and tank is free of bacteria and any debris which if any traces of the protozoan if present, will not survive without host

 

[Trueruby]

I tried to add some pictures from tank of last Anthias, chromises are still fine.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I tried to add some pictures from tank of last Anthias, chromises are still fine.

That does look like Uronema to me - the angle of the lesion is pretty distinctive.

jay

 

[Trueruby]

That does look like Uronema to me - the angle of the lesion is pretty distinctive.

jay

Thanks Jay, as it is the very new addition and 3 others anthias died. Should I take it out or its already too late and disease in the tank? It still eats like a dog

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks Jay, as it is the very new addition and 3 others anthias died. Should I take it out or its already too late and disease in the tank? It still eats like a dog

I would just leave it where it is and hope that it isn’t Uronema. No point in moving it, that only adds to the stress.
Jay

 

[Trueruby]

Diagnosis after death and out of water is very difficult. While uronema is a possibility, other disease or parasites may have been introduced with the new fish . Uronema does not tend to be as contagious as other illnesses. But uronema does tend to infect some species, including anthias, more than others. Generally, you will see the infection on both sides of the fish and death happens rather quickly. Medication is useually ineffective.

very little you can do to eliminate uronema from the tank. Clean water and otherwise healthy fish of species less prone to the infection are your best bet.

My concern is the diagnosis might be something else even more contagious and that pathogen may remain in the tank. I wish you had pictures and video before the fish transpired. Did you notice other unexpected behavior or conditions? Hear breathing, slime, mucus, spots, lethargy, gulping for air, flashing?

Thanks for the comments, I have noticed only some anthias had somethink like cotton just after I added them. Here is the picture below at firstday. IMO didnt show any sign of uronema. In fact its been a month since their addition. Where cromises are still healty

 

[Trueruby]

I see the anthias as Injury and butterfly as bacterial or flukes. Uronema is a ciliated parasite and fish with large scales that are loosely placed can get it. Generally the onset can be from as simple as a drop in salinity. Quarantine is best prevention with this disease and best recourse would be to treat with Ruby Rally Pro- Not formalin which is suggested which can burn the area should there be any ciliated parasites.
Seachem kanaplex should also work.
As for fallow, have the tank fishless 45-60 days and assure salinity is maintained and tank is free of bacteria and any debris which if any traces of the protozoan if present, will not survive without host

We all know the QT is the best but in home tanks unfortunatelly no place for qt otherwise not happy wife not happy reefin lol

 

[vetteguy53081]

We all know the QT is the best but in home tanks unfortunatelly no place for qt otherwise not happy wife not happy reefin lol

You have choices.
I dont have one running but have tank and ability to set one up when needed and take down when done.

 

[Trueruby]

That does look like Uronema to me - the angle of the lesion is pretty distinctive.

jay

The last anthias died Jay, so seem like uronema right?

 

[Trueruby]

That does look like Uronema to me - the angle of the lesion is pretty distinctive.

jay

The last anthias died Jay, so seem like uronema right?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The last anthias died Jay, so seem like uronema right?

Sorry to hear.

I'm not sure. If any of the fish died with no lesions, and their mouths weren't gaped open, it may well have been a combination of factors.

Jay

 

[Trueruby]

Sorry to hear.

I'm not sure. If any of the fish died with no lesions, and their mouths weren't gaped open, it may well have been a combination of factors.

Jay

I am afraid the mouth is wide open please see attached. The pictures are new. Probably 20-24 hours after death.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I am afraid the mouth is wide open please see attached. The pictures are new. Probably 20-24 hours after death.

Yes - that one died from Uronema; wide open mouth and severe lesion. What I meant was you said, “the last anthias died”. I took that to mean the whole group died, and if the other anthias died without those symptoms, they could have a second issue.
Jay