It just happened and I am afraid it’s probably only the beginning :-(

[saltyfilmfolks]

FWIW, I don't really feel one way or another about the CA dog issue; just reading the details. I'm about as far from CA as you can get in the lower 48...

Lol. How's the weather ?

And it is worth pointing out , what is good for one stash may not be good for another.

CA is big. Like really big. Really really big. Wyoming , not so much

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

is a 'first step' to banning fish capture and coral

It Is going to happen.

The wild supply will not meet the human demand.

Ask the lorax.

 

[MnFish1]

No. We breed coral now. And fish.
Farming. If we want it we grow it becuse the natural wild supply line cannot keep up with demand. Like chicken and potato

Once an animal (fish/coral) is on the endangered species list, it is illegal to keep it (in the US) whether farmed or not. Example - Asian Arowana - widely farmed in Asia - illegal for import into or sell in the US due to its endangered status

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

IMHO, the CA law is a first step in limiting pure-bred dogs in favor of rescue/shelter dogs.

It is a concern.

A bleeding heart would say, why breed more dogs when your killing these ones over here?

Keep in mind , the vol Ca is dealing with.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Once an animal (fish/coral) is on the endangered species list, it is illegal to keep it (in the US) whether farmed or not. Example - Asian Arowana - widely farmed in Asia - illegal for import into or sell in the US due to its endangered status

World ain't perfect and governments arent either and also corrupt.

 

[S-t-r-e-t-c-h]

Lol. How's the weather ?

A frigid 65 degrees today. ;Cold

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

A frigid 65 degrees today. ;Cold

Krikey! Time for the winter shorts!

 

[MnFish1]

It is a concern. A bleeding heart would say, why breed more dogs when your killing these ones over here? Keep in mind , the vol Ca is dealing with.

''

I know the logic. People say lots of things (I wont use the term bleeding heart) - Stretching that (illogic) logic, a person could also say 'people in inner city LA are hungry', rather than owning pets and spending thousands of dollars on them, we should be putting that money to the homeless population. The problem with this - is that there is no limit to that type of thinking. My guess is that the volume of dogs (per capita) in California is no higher than other states.

By the way - without dog breeders, if people only sell spayed and neutered rescue dogs, in 50 years there will be no dogs to own.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

dogs (per capita) in California is no higher than other states.

Tenth largest economy in the planet.
That's just la. Just one city.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

people in inner city LA are hungry', rather than owning pets and spending thousands of dollars on them, we should be putting that money to the homeless population. The problem with

No. That makes no sense. No.
No body says that except Kooks.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

By the way - without dog breeders, if people only sell spayed and neutered rescue dogs, in 50 years there will be no dogs to own.

That's just alarmist.
Breeders are fine. Puppy mills no.
This law just encourages (forces) a recycling of sorts.

High vol animal sellers now have to use already available supplies rather than making new ones that will(as we already have evidence of this with the back log ) just be wasted and put back into the overstock.
Gross we're talking about puppies in that.

By not using using available supplies and constantly increasing surplus you have a storage problem for the surplus supplies.

In this case, we have to kill the surplus.

If folks would just learn to love pigs more as pets it would be ok.
But nobody wants puppy sausage for some reason.

 

[MnFish1]

No. That makes no sense. No.
No body says that except Kooks.

LOL. I agree. But - IMHO - its nearly as kooky to say 'why breed pure-bred dogs when we're putting others to sleep' ( I dont know if you felt that way or if you were playing devils advocate). It is exactly the same logic. (People spend thousands of dollars on dogs and cats (*and apparently in CA - Rabbits). People give dogs that are 10 years old chemotherapy for cancer (even if their life expectancy is 11 years). It would be easy for some to suggest that it makes more sense to support human beings rather than pets.

Dog breeding is a hobby (just as reef keeping), Most dog breeders don't make money, they screen for genetic diseases and they ensure that their puppies go to good homes (they dont sell to the first person from whom they get an offer).

Again - no one (except the puppy mill owners) support puppy mills. Since the discussion was about the law in CA - I continue to say the law will not decrease the number of homeless/unhealthy dogs or cats. It will encourage (as another person said) puppy mills skirting the rules and selling their animals some other way - or to other states. In the meantime, pet shops (some bad some good - I don't know the numbers) will be hurt. Reputable breeders that sell animals to those stores will be hurt.

Lastly - well intentioned laws like this one in CA - will one day lead to the end of reef keeping in the US.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I dont know if you felt that way or if you were playing devils advocate). It is exac

Both. And having fun in a healthy debate

But most know we won't stop buying animals or video games to feed the poor.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Lastly - well intentioned laws like this one in CA - will one day lead to the end of reef keeping in the

Laws an precedent are long and slow and evolve with society. So it's a we will see.
And I will dis agree. This isn't a problem in Wyoming so it's an unfair comparison.
But yes. We won't be able to get some fish and coral here. And yes. We already can't.

 

[MnFish1]

That's just alarmist.
Breeders are fine. Puppy mills no.
This law just encourages (forces) a recycling of sorts.

High vol animal sellers now have to use already available supplies rather than making new ones that will(as we already have evidence of this with the back log ) just be wasted and put back into the overstock.
Gross we're talking about puppies in that.

By not using using available supplies and constantly increasing surplus you have a storage problem for the surplus supplies.

In this case, we have to kill the surplus.

If folks would just learn to love pigs more as pets it would be ok.
But nobody wants puppy sausage for some reason.

You think breeders are fine. If thats the case, why cant breeders sell their puppies to pet stores in CA? Like I said - this law seems to be a precursor to eliminating pure-breed dog breeding in its entirety (which many of the advocates of this law also support).

There is a difference between a Poodle found in a 'shelter' than one bought from a reputable breeder. So, in fact, it encourages people to purchase animals that may have more behavior problems or health problems (and more likely to be turned back in). By the way - If I knew the dog/cat /rabbit I was buying was from a rescue (at a pet store) I wouldn't buy it. Many of the reasons that the animals are in a rescue situation is. because they were a problem animal in the first place. The supply you are talking about replenishing is not equivalent to the overall supply.

If your concern is 'killing the surplus', IMHO, this law will result in many fewer people buying dogs/cats/rabbits in pet stores, and pet stores will either go out of business or make up their revenue elsewhere. Why would a person go to a pet store and pay 1500 for a dog - when they could adopt the same dog for 150 (there is a very limited market for rescue dogs).

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

You think breeders are fine. If thats the case, why cant breeders sell their puppies to pet stores in CA? Like I said - this law seems to be a precursor to eliminating pure-breed dog breeding in its entirety (which many of the advocates of this law also support).

It's not. You should come to la for a week or two.
One hour at the Costco in Burbank on sat and you'll understand. You'll also need a therapist.

 

[Heliarc19]

Not sure about this laws consequences but I can say living in Texas we will be the last state to do this.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Why would a person go to a pet store and pay 1500 for a dog - when they could adopt the same dog for 150 (there is a very limited market for rescue dogs

You have no idea what it costs here. And you're giving credit to people unduly to to know the difference in a white shelter kitten and white bred kitten.

By your logic you figur you can get the same dog for 150 or 1500? Seriously? I'm mean seriously.

 

[MnFish1]

This isn't a problem in Wyoming so it's an unfair comparison.

OK - Unless you have other data, my guess is that the per-capita dog numbers in shelters are similar in CA and the rest of the country. WY may be an exception. Some of the colder states may be an exception. There are many cities around the country that have done this (CA is just the first state to do it).

If this law was about 'puppy mills' rather than breeders in general, why are cats and rabbits included. This is about animal activism disguised in a law against 'puppy mills'. It is a law against pet shops in general. The law will not hurt puppy mills it will hurt pet shops.

 

[MnFish1]

You have no idea what it costs here. And you're giving credit to people unduly to to know the difference in a white shelter kitten and white bred kitten.

By your logic you figur you can get the same dog for 150 or 1500? Seriously? I'm mean seriously.

Point 1 - It doesn't matter what it costs there. The point is still the same (See point 3 below)
Point 2 - Im not giving credit to people to know what the difference is between a shelter kitten and a white bred kitten. If ALL of the animals in a pet store are from rescues or shelters (which is what the law says) people will know that every animal in a pet store is from a rescue/shelter.
Point 3 - Do you think pet stores will not charge the same amount for a rescue/shelter dog that looks like a pure-bred (ie. is a pure-bred) as compared to a pure-bred obtained by a breeder? In other words. If I go to my shelter and adopt a pure-bred poodle it will cost maybe 150$.. If I bought that same dog in a pet store it would be 1500. Whether the pet store is getting his animals from a breeder or a rescue the price will be the same. There are lots of pure bred animals in shelters (especially pit bulls, Rottweilers, etc). So yes 'seriously'

Edited: Whether the pet store is getting his animals from a breeder or a rescue the RETAIL price will be the same. There are lots of pure bred animals in shelters (especially pit bulls, Rottweilers, etc). So yes 'seriously'. (the price for a rescue dog in CA may be higher - the retail price in a pet shop/breeder will be higher still)