It's all @Paul B's fault... my journey to an immune reef (hopefully!)

jasonrusso

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So far he's had the living **** beaten out of him by the YT... if he's gonna get ich or brook, it's gonna happen soon... I feel like I did when I let go of the bike my oldest kid was riding without stabilisers for the first time!!
I got rid of my YT because he got too territorial.
 

Paul B

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I hope you didn't put him in the blender with the salmon eyes :eek:
 
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Gweeds1980

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I got rid of my YT because he got too territorial.
The YT isn't normally a problem, he normally gives newcomers a bit of a bashing for 24 hours and then that's it.

The breeding maroon clowns and humbug damsels however are a different kettle of fish... they are just evil. The humbugs in particular... they bite me when I put my hand in the tank!!
 

Paul B

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They bite you because they are healthy. I am also healthy and bite my wife occasionally, especially when I ask her for something and she says "bite me".
 
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Gweeds1980

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Pics!
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Gweeds1980

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Couple of weeks on... all is good. The PBT is doing well, no signs of spots :) as is the cleaner wrasse I added at the same time.

Feeding regimen is still in place, clowns and damsels are breeding like there's no tomorrow...

On a more sour note, my sand sifting star has died :(

Not due to disease or malnourishment... he had an entire arm eaten by a tiger cowrie I put in when they were in the QT... he carried on for a good few weeks and I hoped he would heal and regenerate the missing arm, but it never really healed. I found him in bits the other morning, had disintegrated during the night.

The cowrie was condemned to the QT sump after he also munched through some GSP. However, I think he was just starving from the LFS as he stopped eating anything other than algae after that. I put him back in the main QT tank where he behaved for a couple of weeks, so popped him into the DT with crossed fingers... so far he's been a model citizen.

In disease news, I'm trying to think up a way of 'safely' introducing velvet... has me stumped at the moment tho, apart from maybe trying to isolate an individual parasite to reduce the risk of overwhelming the fish. My problem is that as far as I know, none of my fish have been exposed to velvet, so there will be no natural immunity now... the last thing I want to do is unleash velvet on the tank only for all the hard work so far to be undone...

I did notice a couple of spots on my regal tang last week... first I've ever seen. Was at the same time I was installing new lights, a gyre pump and modding my hood, so I've put it down to added stress (hands were in the tank a fair bit, ladders, banging and drilling etc as well as both flow and lighting intensity / schedule changing). The spots went after 2 days, I ran the UV for 48 hours solid (normally only on for 24 hours a month now). No other fish affected. The regal exhibited no flashing, fed normally and behaviour was normal...

Question for @PaulB, do you ever have the odd spot appear and then disappear without other symptoms or do they simply not appear, ever?
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Paul B

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Question for @PaulB, do you ever have the odd spot appear and then disappear without other symptoms or do they simply not appear, ever?

Yes occasional, they quite rarely appear, maybe on one fish a year, but they always disappear. They are a welcome sight in my tank that lets me know there are parasites happily living and being annoyed by my fishes immunity.:D
 
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Gweeds1980

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Been a while since this thread was updated...

All is good in the disease ridden tank ;)

The PBT is doing well, as are all the others... I added a somewhat challenging friend too which has led to me having to feed the tank constantly with ridiculously small foods :)

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Paul B

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I added a flasher wrasse to my tank 2 days ago which was covered in parasites. I didn't do it on purpose but I stupidly bought a fish without looking at it. I didn't notice until he was in my tank and he couldn't even swim. He sunk like Paris Hilton's dog would if he tried to swim.
I took him out and found a small tank for him where he died a few hours later. Those parasites I added are probably sad now because my fish don't pay any attention to them. :rolleyes:
 
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Gweeds1980

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Right... been a while... I may just need some help!

I have introduced velvet... what the heck, why not. I was reading up on the disease and discovered it could be rendered unviable with the use of formalin.

So, I put a call in to a number of shops and asked if they had anything with velvet... sadly not (or wouldn't admit they did!)

Two weeks ago I had a call back, one LFS had a customer who'd brought a deceased regal tang in for confirmation that it had died from velvet... they were confident it was velvet so I swiftly went over and took a fin sample with obvious spots.

Now the next bit isn't very scientific... so for anyone reading this... DO NOT TRY THIS YOURSELF, YOUR FISH WILL PROBABLY DIE.

I took the fin clipping and put it into a vial with formalin (NT labs) and nothing else. I left it there for 30 minutes, rinsed the vial out and put the fin clipping into my sump, as per the brook introduction.

All was fine for a couple of days, I assumed it hadn't worked tbh.

Then, I noticed my Heni acting odd. We'll call this day 1 (15th august). He was swimming into flow, hiding out of the light and flashing against sand and rock. There were no visible signs of velvet. I observed feeding and he was eating normally.

On day 2 he came out in classic velvet dusting... more hiding, more swimming into flow and had begun to lighten in colour. Was still eating normally.

Now, I assumed he would be a gonner without treatment... but on day 3 he was still the same, still eating normally etc.

No other fish have showed any symptoms, including the tangs (for reference, powder blue, orange shoulder, regal and yellow)

Fast forward to what is now day 10... heni still with us, has exactly the same symptoms, still eating fine. The dusting hasn't left him. All other fish still showing no symptoms...

Now, I should probably take him out and treat, but as he's eating and other fish are fine, I haven't, I've just observed.

So my question is... what the heck? Is this not velvet? Why are the other fish not affected? Has my 'vaccination' worked on the others? Is this unrelated case of ich but with very small spots? If it is, why the hiding from light? Is this something else entirely?

I am considering a h2o2 dip, to alleviate the discomfort... I know this isn't the 'correct' way to treat, but clearly whatever is affecting the heni is parasitic and not about to kill him, not quickly anyway, so I think I have time to experiment (questionable ethics, but I'd rather avoid that can of worms atm). I have turned on the UV again and been running it 24/7 since symptoms began... for anyone having read this thread, I do not want to remove whatever this parasite is from my DT. I just want to try to alleviate the symptoms so that he can develop resistance (as the others seem to have).

@Humblefish and #reefsquad would really appreciate your thoughts on this.

Pics below. All taken 5 mins ago, whilst feeding. Most obvious spots are on the fins, but to the eye he is covered in a fine dust.
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jasonrusso

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Right... been a while... I may just need some help!

I have introduced velvet... what the heck, why not. I was reading up on the disease and discovered it could be rendered unviable with the use of formalin.

So, I put a call in to a number of shops and asked if they had anything with velvet... sadly not (or wouldn't admit they did!)

Two weeks ago I had a call back, one LFS had a customer who'd brought a deceased regal tang in for confirmation that it had died from velvet... they were confident it was velvet so I swiftly went over and took a fin sample with obvious spots.

Now the next bit isn't very scientific... so for anyone reading this... DO NOT TRY THIS YOURSELF, YOUR FISH WILL PROBABLY DIE.

I took the fin clipping and put it into a vial with formalin (NT labs) and nothing else. I left it there for 30 minutes, rinsed the vial out and put the fin clipping into my sump, as per the brook introduction.

All was fine for a couple of days, I assumed it hadn't worked tbh.

Then, I noticed my Heni acting odd. We'll call this day 1 (15th august). He was swimming into flow, hiding out of the light and flashing against sand and rock. There were no visible signs of velvet. I observed feeding and he was eating normally.

On day 2 he came out in classic velvet dusting... more hiding, more swimming into flow and had begun to lighten in colour. Was still eating normally.

Now, I assumed he would be a gonner without treatment... but on day 3 he was still the same, still eating normally etc.

No other fish have showed any symptoms, including the tangs (for reference, powder blue, orange shoulder, regal and yellow)

Fast forward to what is now day 10... heni still with us, has exactly the same symptoms, still eating fine. The dusting hasn't left him. All other fish still showing no symptoms...

Now, I should probably take him out and treat, but as he's eating and other fish are fine, I haven't, I've just observed.

So my question is... what the heck? Is this not velvet? Why are the other fish not affected? Has my 'vaccination' worked on the others? Is this unrelated case of ich but with very small spots? If it is, why the hiding from light? Is this something else entirely?

I am considering a h2o2 dip, to alleviate the discomfort... I know this isn't the 'correct' way to treat, but clearly whatever is affecting the heni is parasitic and not about to kill him, not quickly anyway, so I think I have time to experiment (questionable ethics, but I'd rather avoid that can of worms atm). I have turned on the UV again and been running it 24/7 since symptoms began... for anyone having read this thread, I do not want to remove whatever this parasite is from my DT. I just want to try to alleviate the symptoms so that he can develop resistance (as the others seem to have).

@Humblefish and #reefsquad would really appreciate your thoughts on this.

Pics below. All taken 5 mins ago, whilst feeding. Most obvious spots are on the fins, but to the eye he is covered in a fine dust.
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He might just be a tough fish and is fighting it off the best he can. My puffer had it for weeks before I bit the bullet and QTd him.
 

Paul B

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If that fish survives, he will be immune to it. If he doesn't, then I guess it doesn't matter. :rolleyes:

You are feeding him the correct foods I hope.

Humble (and I love him in a fishy sort of way) will say to remove all the fish to treat and leave everything out for 72 days as that is the prescribed treatment. But then your experiment will be over. :confused:
 

tj w

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Looks like velvet to me, just a matter of time before your other fish come down with it. I've had fish live with it for over a month before succumbing to it. Good luck with that experiment.
 
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Gweeds1980

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If that fish survives, he will be immune to it. If he doesn't, then I guess it doesn't matter. :rolleyes:

You are feeding him the correct foods I hope.

Humble (and I love him in a fishy sort of way) will say to remove all the fish to treat and leave everything out for 72 days as that is the prescribed treatment. But then your experiment will be over. :confused:
Of course, foods haven't changed... blackworm, fresh mussels and the homebrew. Still chucking stuff in from the beach too. My fault, I knew the risks...
 

Paul B

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The rest of your fish should be fine. But I can't see your tank from here. At least we know that formalin doesn't kill velvet :rolleyes:
 

Paul B

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I may move in a few months and take my tank down. If I do, I should try that first. :rolleyes:
 
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