Dr. Dendrostein
Marine fish monthly
From what I've heard until new elections in March? And IF new fisheries minister comes in no lifting yet?
It's official - The bans are being lifted from Indo Coral Exports
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roninmagik1
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Tag, you're it! =)
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I’ll tag in 
Is there a ban happening in Australia as well ?
Is there a ban happening in Australia as well ?
Kaleb W Bellamy
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Taging along
JaimeAdams
2500 Club Member
Seeing this thread pop up on my alerts tab after months had me very excited. Then let down. There are elections in Indonesia next month, so let's hope for the best.
Devaji
5000 Club Member
I had the same experience...haha hopefully someday I solution that is a win win for the planet the ppl in indo and the reefers world wide
Same here!
Even though I would probably know before it is listed in this thread.
Is Susi up for reelection? I think she was appointed correct?
If she does not go it wont matter unless a new president appoints someone different.
I’m going to be unpopular, but I don’t think they should lift the ban. I’ve been scuba diving in Indonesia and it is utterly amazing. I support preserving that and don’t believe our need for coral in our tanks outweighs that, especially since so many coral die either en route, in the LFS or in our tanks. Plus, the economics put very bad incentives on the local businesses that collect corals to do it in a way that is not friendly to the reefs. Conversely, Indonesia’s main way to bring money into the country is tourism, so they are smart to preserve the reefs.
Yes, aquaculture limits our choices and drives costs up, but the more we support it the more the prices will come down and the more choices we will have.
I’m not trying to be all preachy (though I recognize I am being preachy a bit), but the bottom line is I support the government’s decision to try to preserve the reefs which is a far sighted decision and I believe is better for Indonesia in the long term, despite the immediate benefit it would get from selling off the coral.
If you can afford it (maybe go on a coral buying hiatus for a few weeks [emoji6]) I strongly recommend Indonesia as a vacation.
Yes, aquaculture limits our choices and drives costs up, but the more we support it the more the prices will come down and the more choices we will have.
I’m not trying to be all preachy (though I recognize I am being preachy a bit), but the bottom line is I support the government’s decision to try to preserve the reefs which is a far sighted decision and I believe is better for Indonesia in the long term, despite the immediate benefit it would get from selling off the coral.
If you can afford it (maybe go on a coral buying hiatus for a few weeks [emoji6]) I strongly recommend Indonesia as a vacation.
Opus
2500 Club Member
If I thought that reef preservation was their motivation I would agree with you.
vanpire
Valuable Member
I do scuba dive in the South Pacific and I also love the reefs there. It is not so simple as stopping coral exports will keep the reefs pure.
Having exports especially control and monitored exports might be a good thing for the reefs. If people's livelihoods are dependent on the reefs, they are more likely to take care of it. And we seem to be obtaining large portions of the Indo corals via mariculture.
Even tourism is very destructive to corals reefs. I have seen declines in various reefs around the popular Thai islands. The reefs, especially at popular tourists spots, are in a very sad state.
Having exports especially control and monitored exports might be a good thing for the reefs. If people's livelihoods are dependent on the reefs, they are more likely to take care of it. And we seem to be obtaining large portions of the Indo corals via mariculture.
Even tourism is very destructive to corals reefs. I have seen declines in various reefs around the popular Thai islands. The reefs, especially at popular tourists spots, are in a very sad state.
JaimeAdams
2500 Club Member
I think that everyone wants to see the reefs still around for future generations. I also don't want this thread to derail into arguments and be shut down as previous threads. From my understanding of things and from what I have read there is very little impact on the reefs due to our hobby. In my opinion this was politically motivated and not scientific. If I walked out onto a foot ball field and pulled up a blade of grass no one would care. I think that most people have no idea on how much coral was really being taken for the hobby. I believe Dr. Mac described it once and it was not a noticeable amount. Look at how Fiji shut down even though Walt Smiths Mariculture operation was actually restoring the damaged reef. Indonesia did not just shut down wild collected colonies, they shut down Mariculture as well. It would be like Hawaii saying no more Pineapples, we have to protect native species so hey all you farmers just abandon your farms and let the pineapples do their own thing. The only thing that shutting down coral farms does is makes the government look like it is protecting the environment to people who don't understand. All these fishing boats that the minister is sinking does more harm to the reef than all of the coral the hobby has ever collected.
I agree that tourism can be very bad for reefs, so that point is well taken - I have seen other divers break coral and know that sun screen and other chemicals can cause harm. I do it as responsibly as I can. And I actually don’t take issue with mariculture in principle. It all just needs to be done responsibly.
I do not think it is argumentative to simply voice a dissenting opinion. I am not trying to argue and literally said my post as nicely as was possible for me. I am an attorney- trust me, it would be really obvious if I were arguing. [emoji851]
I am trying to be a responsible reef keeper and for me that means not collecting from the wild and not objecting if Indonesia doesn’t allow that either. I’m sure that some sellers collect responsibly but I’m also sure that others do not. I can’t personally support that.
I do not think it is argumentative to simply voice a dissenting opinion. I am not trying to argue and literally said my post as nicely as was possible for me. I am an attorney- trust me, it would be really obvious if I were arguing. [emoji851]
I am trying to be a responsible reef keeper and for me that means not collecting from the wild and not objecting if Indonesia doesn’t allow that either. I’m sure that some sellers collect responsibly but I’m also sure that others do not. I can’t personally support that.
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Sooo so far this ban is still in full swing correct? My LFS claims Indonesian ban is the reason for the Euphyllia shortage and crazy prices.
I wanted to get a torch that was normally $30-40 and they are now starting at $150 for a 2-3 headed plain Jane torch.
I wanted to get a torch that was normally $30-40 and they are now starting at $150 for a 2-3 headed plain Jane torch.
kkiel02
Active Member
Yes from what I’ve read there technically isn’t a ban anymore but they are not allowing exports of coral because they aren’t allowing the permits or what is needed for shipping. The new elections just happened but I haven’t heard anything new yet.
Interesting...I wonder how much of an issue this is for the new elected official? As far as whether they will actually try to effect a change to policy or just leave it be. In other words we will continue to have the effects of a ban although it is not officially banned.
Retro Reefer
Slow and steady wins the race!
You can still easily get torches for around $10 head sounds like your LFS is trying to take advantage of the ban.. they are $10 at my LFS for a 1-2 head frag and there’s lots of places on line you can order them.
https://chaosaquaculture.com/product/duncan-coral-frag/
Above is just a example after a quick search
DarkSky
Well-Known Member
The link you posted is for duncans, not torches...
Edit: Their torch prices seem to be in line with what @JCRove06
was complaining about: https://chaosaquaculture.com/product/green-tipped-torch-2/
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