I've lost 2 of 9 Longspine Cardinal Fish

[Nathan Milender]

So, I'm just getting back into the hobby after a 10 year break due to school/life circumstances. I had never quarantined before, and with otherwise decent husbandry managed to stock a 60 cube without losing a single fish. For my new tank I qt'd a pair of clowns right before these cardinals (my girlfriend insisted on clowns), they also had internal parasites, and I suspect latent velvet since they were swimming into the flow of the power head, the girlfriend thought they were playing, for the first few days and then stopped after that. I guess my point is exactly how prevalent are sick fish currently? Am I a bit unlucky or is this par for the course?

I am not sure there is an answer to this. Some of the debates are somewhat heated in this forum. I took a 20year break and recently came back to it and things have changed. My last SW tank used LFS fish, ran on an undergravel filter, and I never saw marine velvet, ich, uronema, stringy poop, or anything else. Maybe it was luck. Maybe it was the less diverse availability of fish as I do not remember being able to get as many as we can get these days. Now I assume all fish I get have something on them. Whether or not this equates to disease is another matter.

These fish are said by many to come from a handful of suppliers and then distributed through the various vendors we use. I have never verified this because seriously, what am I going to do about it? Some suppliers state they have their own collectors, but who really knows. It does seem likely that thousands of fish going through central fish hubs under stress are likely to pick up disease when most of us cannot even get through an airport without picking up pathogens and we are not sharing drinks with everyone in the airport like a fish in a distributor with shared water. We then box them up and send them again. I marvel at how many come through healthy but I put everything in QT and at a minimum treat chlorquine (copper if needed instead), prazi, and metro. Overall, my percentage of healthy fish making it through QT is over 90%. When I lose a fish I will dissect it under magnification and look for pathogens. Sometimes I find nothing, and I do believe that the stress of shipping can outright kill some fish.

I would plan for some loss, learn what you can and do your best to minimize it. Sometimes you do everything that can be done and they still die. When it works and you get your tank going it is still a lot fun.

 

[Pdash]

Everybody into the RRR pool. The one by herself is the worst off looking one. I'm doubting she will make it through the dip.

 

[Pdash]

Looks listless floating etc, sometimes she rights herself and swims.

 

[jsvand5]

Looks listless floating etc, sometimes she rights herself and swims.

Honestly, these are just tough fish until they are settled and recovered from shipping. The losses you are seeing is pretty common with these. I currently have had 9 for about 6 months and they are doing great but to get 9 I had to order 15. I agree with treating for flukes then go with copper in case there is any ich. I got 9 from divers den, and 6 from the LFS. Lost 3 from each batch. Very under rated fish IMO. Under LEDs their eyes really glow blue. Still not flashy obviously but definitely the best shoaling fish for a Reef IMO. I think tanks look unnatural without smaller shoaling fish mixed in.

 

[blitzkragz]

Headshake and fin damage are two telltale signs of flukes. I would do a FW dip and see what you get.

I have a bangai cardinal in qt (copper) that has both of those symptoms. Question, if i do a FW dip, do I need to pre-dose the FW with a therapeutic level of copper first, so as to not reset the clock?

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

I have a bangai cardinal in qt (copper) that has both of those symptoms. Question, if i do a FW dip, do I need to pre-dose the FW with a therapeutic level of copper first, so as to not reset the clock?

No, Velvet and other parasites will not survive in a FW dip and cannot complete a life cycle.

 

[blitzkragz]

No, Velvet and other parasites will not survive in a FW dip and cannot complete a life cycle.

Awesome, thanks!
Also to @Pdash, I feel your pain on this particular fish. I have lost 12 of 25, most of those losses being DOA or within the first 2 days. Several had white stringy poop, and as time went on, one out of the school would just decide to stop eating and fade away. But I have a group of 12 that made it through two weeks of copper, and 7 of those are looking really strong (like ravenous piranhas at feeding time). I hope to have a long lasting healthy school, but the initial losses I just don't know what I could have done differently.

 

[Pdash]

Awesome, thanks!
Also to @Pdash, I feel your pain on this particular fish. I have lost 12 of 25, most of those losses being DOA or within the first 2 days. Several had white stringy poop, and as time went on, one out of the school would just decide to stop eating and fade away. But I have a group of 12 that made it through two weeks of copper, and 7 of those are looking really strong (like ravenous piranhas at feeding time). I hope to have a long lasting healthy school, but the initial losses I just don't know what I could have done differently.

Thanks for the kind words, just lost the weak one in the RRR dip. I hope to have a school of 5-9 in my red sea 350. Everything else seems to be going great on my new tank even have some acropora beginning to encrust.

 

[Pdash]

Well, there are 6 remaining. I guess I'll do another GC dose in 5 days, and keep on trying to get them to eat. Thanks a lot for all your help @Frtdrmrose7 I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

 

[Pdash]

They went absolutely bonkers for the live baby brine this morning. Lol

 

[jsvand5]

They went absolutely bonkers for the live baby brine this morning. Lol

You should be good with them now. I doubt you’ll lose anymore. Mine seem to like PE or cobalt mysis the best out of all the foods I use.

 

[Pdash]

Well, @Frtdrmrose7 They seem to have some life pumped into them by the live brine, they are significantly more active and less shy now. However, I'm now seeing a little bit of white something on one of their anal fins maybe a little on the tail. Would appreciate your opinion.

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

Well, @Frtdrmrose7 They seem to have some life pumped into them by the live brine, they are significantly more active and less shy now. However, I'm now seeing a little bit of white something on one of their anal fins maybe a little on the tail. Would appreciate your opinion.

I see some tattered fins and that could be from internal squabbling between them or it could also be flukes. The small white dots on the fins could be flukes or the start of lympho (white cottony growths). Not to sound like a broken record but have you done a FW dip on the one in the pics?

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/lymphocystis.257461/

 

[Pdash]

I only did the FW dip on the one, but the others have been through a RRR dip as well as GC, though only 2 doses separated by 48 hours. I would think any flukes would have been significantly knocked back, and I would finish them off with another round of GC this coming Sunday.

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

I only did the FW dip on the one, but the others have been through a RRR dip as well as GC, though only 2 doses separated by 48 hours. I would think any flukes would have been significantly knocked back, and I would finish them off with another round of GC this coming Sunday.

Did you look at the lympho thread?

 

[Pdash]

Yeah, hard to say if it is or not. It isn't obviously lympho though to my eye.

 

[Pdash]

I'll FW dip if you think it's worth it. I'm pretty sure the one that died is the one I had done the previous FW dip on, and there weren't any flukes present. The rest of them have their fins pretty much wholly intact, maybe a tiny spot of damage on one other fish. I was planning on doing a 25% water change, then dosing furan-2 again today.

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

I'll FW dip if you think it's worth it. I'm pretty sure the one that died is the one I had done the previous FW dip on, and there weren't any flukes present. The rest of them have their fins pretty much wholly intact, maybe a tiny spot of damage on one other fish. I was planning on doing a 25% water change, then dosing furan-2 again today.

I would watch those spots carefully and just make sure it’s not the start of something else.

 

[Pdash]

I would watch those spots carefully and just make sure it’s not the start of something else.

Roger that, I'm just not sure what it would be, doesn't look like ich/velvet to me, and I have CP dosed. The same CP level that likely saved the clowns I had just put through QT from velvet.